[kj] OT: Are we still talking about Evanescence here?

[culture.virus]

At 08:42 PM 12/19/03, Alex wrote:

>Okay, here we go....
>
>"Alex, do you not see your own hypocrisy?"
>
>No, but I *DO* see a big middle finger pointed right at YOU!

I thought you might not.


>"You and many others on the Gathering have blasted Peter for his statements
>about the 'sword of Islam' and then you turn around and paint all Xian
>musician's art as moot simply
>because of their religious beliefs?"
>
>You may notice, I wrote: "1. They're Christians, which renders their music
>instantly moot, as far as I'm concerned." There is a *HUGE* difference 
>between
>decrying an entire faith as zombified zealots sworn to the abject destruction
>of all non-believers and expressing the opinion that "Christian Rock" 
>sucks so
>bad that it's not even worth discussing...once again, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED.

I agree that there is BIG difference of scale. Nor was I implying that you 
have decried Xians as a whole. That being said you have made a prejudicial 
statement when you say "They're Christians, which renders their music 
instantly moot, as far as I'm concerned." You have prejudged all endeavors 
at music by Xians to be of such a nature as to "suck a giant bag of greasy 
dicks."

>  Peter was talking about warfare, I was discussing entertainment. Does
>expressing my disdain for Evanescence's music mean that I think all 
>Christians are
>the enemy? No, but it means I think their weak -ass attempts at rock suck 
>giant
>bag of greasy dicks.
>
>"Bruce Cockburn is a Xian is his body of work moot?"
>
>I've never been a fan

Nor am I a "fan" but it's obvious that his work in the singer/songwriter 
subgenre of rock is of very high stature.


>"What about Dylan?"
>
>I've *NEVER* been a fan of Bob Dylan

Maybe, but that doesn't undermine the "fact" that his work is legendary. 
Not to mention the fact that his Xian era works were probably among the 
most musically complex of his entire career.


>*What about any number of classical composers?"
>
>That's not Rock.
>
>"And what about reggae?"
>
>That's not Christian, and technically, that's not rock either.

AFAIC all modern music owes a good deal of it's roots to the blues and 
therefore rock as well. Reggae is a post rock and roll genre.


>"Is it all moot because of their religious beliefs?"
>
>I never said that. My point was that Christian Rock sucks...a statement I'll
>stand behind.

So is it only Xian attempts at pop/rock that are automatically bereft of 
musical value? You don't even have to hear it, it just automatically sucks. 
Do you ever stop and wonder why right leaning people in the US accuse the 
left leaning of being elitist?


>"After all a great deal of reggae is overtly religious in it's lyrical
>content."
>
>True, but that's reggae.
>
>"Does Cat Stevens automatically suck because of his allegiance to Allah?"
>
>Did I ever suggest as much?

So is it only Xian attempts at pop/rock that are automatically bereft of 
musical value?


>"Do Live automatically suck because of the Buddhist slant?"
>
>No, they automatically suck BECAUSE THEY'RE LIVE!!!!!

So is it only Xian attempts at pop/rock that are automatically bereft of 
musical value?


>" When are you and the other members of this list going to see that you're as
>prejudiced and hateful as the people you condemn?"
>
>Number one, I'm not PRE-JUDGING Evanescence. I've had the TREMENDOUS
>MISFORTUNE of hearing their music....thus, my judgement of them is based 
>on the
>evidence, not on preconceptions.

No you're not prejudging Evanescence, you're prejudging all acknowledged 
Xian Rock as sucking. In fact if I stripped your statement out of it's 
original context you stated that any music by a Xian is moot. You don't see 
that as being prejudicial? So as I tried to say before the list, you 
included, were slagging Peter for the trait of prejudice, a trait most of 
us see as a negative. IMO you are protraying the trait of prejudice in your 
stance because you don't automatically despise the output of people who are 
of other faiths, only Xians. Therefore by displaying prejudice, and since 
it would appear you view prejudice as a negative trait, you are in fact 
hypocritical.

Now most people, yourself included, might say that this is a minor issue, 
we're only talking about entertainment. But anyone observing this list from 
the outside would see that we hold popular music in high esteem. We value 
it not only for it's artisitic qualities but for it's potential to impact 
popular thinking and change society as we know it. So to automatically 
write off an individual artists output solely because of their faith is to 
not only limit your own listening choices, but it says something about how 
you view Xians as a whole if you are so willing to write off their artistic 
endeavors in a media that you hold in very high esteem.

>Moreover, after fourteen years of Catholic
>education, I feel no qualms about speaking out about a faith I was raised 
>within.

And after another 20 years you haven't matured enough to stop thumbing your 
nose at a strawman? You should really be discussing this with your parents 
and possibly a professional counselor. You're obviously horribly scarred.


>" BTW I'm no fan of Evanescence either."
>
>How nice for you.
>
>Alex in NYC
>reply to home e-mail: vassifer@earthlink.net

I am culturevirus