[kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it

Alexander Smith vassifer at earthlink.net
Sun Oct 17 20:07:16 EDT 2004 

The Sex Pistols, the Damned and the Clash all FUCKING RIPPED OFF The  
Ramones and Richard Hell.

*TAKE THAT, TEA-DRINKERS!*

Alex in NYC


On Sunday, October 17, 2004, at 06:20 PM, peter.west410 wrote:

> Yes I think we agree that Punk was born out of the ashes of Glam,The  
> seeds
> were sown in the US but it was born in the UK,Like it does nt matter  
> where
> the baby was conceived ,Its were it was born that counts.
>      And your reasoning is as absurd as me saying that the Brits  
> invented
> American Football because we started playing Rugby first
>
>            PW
> (More hovercraft material:-)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alexander Smith" <vassifer at earthlink.net>
> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> <gathering at misera.net>
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 10:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
>
>
>> Grrrrrrr.......you're determined to drag me into this, aren't you.
>>
>> The Ramones were the fucking *BLUEPRINT* for Punk Rock.  If there were
>> no Ramones, there'd have been No Pistols, No Clash, No Damned, No
>> nothing (by those bands' very own admissions, no less). Moreover,
>> Malcolm McLaren -- after an abortive stint attempting to manage the
>> dying New York Dolls -- basically took back to the UK his impressions
>> of Richard Hell -- sonically, tonsorially and sartorially -- and
>> grafted them onto what would become the Sex Pistols. "Pretty Vacant"  
>> is
>> basically a shallow re-write of "Blank Generation".  Deal with it.
>>
>> Were the Brit bands better? Quite possibly, but had there been no
>> Ramones and no Richard Hell, you'd all still be listening to Emerson
>> Lake & Palmer and the Bay City Rollers.
>>
>> Alex in New York Fucking City.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, October 17, 2004, at 04:56 PM, peter.west410 wrote:
>>
>>> I think that the NY dolls were part of the glam movement,When exactly
>>> did
>>> the Ramones first tour the UK? and the Ramones were never more than a
>>> cult
>>> band in the UK.
>>>    Right, you can generally put any noisy, out of tune band and say
>>> they
>>> were the original punk band ,some even give examples of bands from  
>>> the
>>> 60s
>>> ,saying they can be classed as punk.
>>>      I think the only way to do it is to see where the first single
>>> which
>>> was punk as we know it,I put in a search for "First punk single" and
>>> it came
>>> up with"New Rose" by "The Damned".
>>>      Right, all we have to do is find out where The Damned came
>>> from,and
>>> that place will be where punk originated.
>>> Does anyone know where The Damned came from?
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Christof hamille" <wessidetempest at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <gathering at misera.net>
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 3:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
>>>
>>>
>>>> Agreed Alex
>>>>
>>>> It seems to obvious.  If you have not read or figured out that none
>>>> of the
>>>> punk bands in England happened until AFTER the Ramones toured there
>>>> then
>>> you
>>>> can look at McLaren and realize that he knew NOTHING about it until
>>>> he saw
>>>> Richard Hell in NYC and came back to England with the infamous white
>>>> Les
>>>> Paul that was passed on to Steve Jones.  That guitar was originally
>>>> owned
>>> by
>>>> one Sylvain Sylvain of the NEW YORK DOLLS.  And along with that that
>>>> is
>>>> where he got the idea of the tattered clothing with the spray  
>>>> painted
>>>> phrases on them.  So no matter how you slice it it started in NYC.   
>>>> It
>>>> exploded in England.
>>>>
>>>> That is all of the repeated energy I am putting into this
>>>>
>>>> enjoy
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>> From: Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
>>>>> Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
>>>>> <gathering at misera.net>
>>>>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
>>>>> <gathering at misera.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
>>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:02:47 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not that it's not a compelling debate, Peter, but with Mik Raven
>>>>> absent,
>>> I
>>>>> can't summon the stamina to get into it here again.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll just cite two names to cement my point: THE RAMONES and  
>>>>> RICHARD
>>> HELL.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex in NYC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, October 16, 2004, at 08:42 PM, peter.west410 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "As was Punk Rock".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No way,It may have been conceived in NY,But it was born & breed in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> UK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Rob's Arse" <joker at Z6.com>
>>>>>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
>>>>>> <gathering at misera.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 11:00 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I never got what they were about. Just didn't.
>>>>>> I have always found them totally alien.
>>>>>> Whiney brats.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Saw ice Cube once too.Reading festival. So lame it was  
>>>>>> embarassing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- Mark G Holt <akillingjoker at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Mark G Holt <akillingjoker at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:05:04 +0100 (BST)
>>>>>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
>>>>>> <gathering at misera.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i love the beasties too, alex, for what its worth
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   For what it's worth, I think Eminem may indeed be clever --- BUT
>>>>>> I'M
>>>>>>   FUCKIN' SICK OF HIM!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Hip Hop I *DO* actually like, despite my genre-sweeping
>>>>>> condemnation:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Public Enemy, Wu-Tang Clan, Busta Rhymes, Jurassic 5, Nas,  
>>>>>> (some)
>>>>>>   Jay-Z, (some) Geto Boys, and I used to quite enjoy the first
>>>>>> record
>>> by
>>>>>>   Das Efx. MC Paul Barman, incidentally, is a thousand times more
>>>>>>   entertaining than Eminem. And I'll always love the Beastie Boys
>>>>>>   (although they've really become a genre unto themselves).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Yeah, Hip Hop was born in NYC. As was Punk Rock. That NYC is  
>>>>>> long
>>> dead
>>>>>>   and gone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Fuck KRS-One, though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Alex in NYC
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   On Saturday, October 16, 2004, at 11:14 AM, Mark G Holt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's the Gathering...room for everyone with every opinion and
>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>> entitled to yours Leigh....
>>>>>>> We may not agree but w hat the hell
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Leigh Newton wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Me, that's who. Fuck Eminem. Joyless cocksucker that
>>>>>>> he is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Leigh
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- Mark G Holt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> got to agree here
>>>>>>>> straight outta compton is awesome, and who honestly
>>>>>>>> doesnt either like or respect eminem?
>>>>>>>> then there's the gravel pit.....it's not hip hop
>>>>>>>> that's wrong. it's what some people say without
>>>>>>>> thinking, i believe
>>>>>>>> as for yoga etc, try taoism, it's working for me....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> mark
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Devacor at aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> In a message dated 10/14/2004 5:23:48 PM Eastern
>>>>>>>> Daylight Time, vassifer at earthlink.net writes:
>>>>>>>> KRS-One, decency zero
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If Osama Bin Laden ever buy s a rap album, he'll
>>>>>>>> probably start with a
>>>>>>>> CD by KRS-One.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The hip-hop anarchist has declared his solidarity
>>>>>>>> with Al Qaeda by
>>>>>>>> asserting that he and other African-Americans
>>>>>>>> "cheered when 9/11
>>>>>>>> happened."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The rapper, whose real name is Kris Parker, defiled
>>>>>>>> the memory of those
>>>>>>>> who died in the terrorist attacks as he spouted off
>>>>>>>> at a recent New
>>>>>>>> Yorker Festival panel discussion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was always let down by KRS- he actually was raised
>>>>>>>> by parents who were trained in mystic yoga and he
>>>>>>>> was brought up that way. He named was actually
>>>>>>>> Krishna, which he changed to kris and "KRS" - he has
>>>>>>>> a lot of insight but wound up just getting
>>>>>>>> sidetracked by sentiment.
>>>>>>>> I recently just rebought the first NWA "Straight
>>>>>>>> ou tta Compton"- its great. I remember my jaw dropped
>>>>>>>> when I heard it when it first came out. It just came
>>>>>>>> outta nowhere and nothing has ever come close.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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