[kj] OT: The great Punk Debate

Mon Oct 18 09:26:18 EDT 2004

>Result!

He shoots . . 

He scores !! 

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Neil Perry [SMTP:neilfperry at btinternet.com]
> Sent:	Monday, October 18, 2004 2:21 PM
> To:	A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
> Subject:	Re: [kj] OT: The great Punk Debate
> 
> Result!
> N
> 
>  --- Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote: 
> > 
> > "They may have come first, but they never really got
> > it..."
> > 
> > *THEY INVENTED IT, YOU SLACKJAWED, DENIAL-ADDICTED
> > GOONS!*
> > 
> > Alex in NYC
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sunday, October 17, 2004, at 11:14 PM, Neil Perry
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Yeah but Alex, I think what Rob's saying is that,
> > > well, the American bands weren't really *proper*
> > punk,
> > > were they? They may have come first, but they
> > never
> > > really got it...
> > > Fastening the hatches on my shelter now
> > > N
> > >
> > >
> > >  --- Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> "I have always seen the Ramones as an update of
> > the
> > >> 60's garage bands.
> > >> Great pop songs but never what I would term
> > "punk"."
> > >>
> > >> ROB, MY BLOOD IS BOILING. I'M GOING TO FLY OVER
> > TO
> > >> ENGLAND AND KILL YOU
> > >> AND BUILD A HOVERCRAFT WITH YOUR BONES AND SAIL
> > BACK
> > >> TO THE STATES ON
> > >> IT.
> > >>
> > >> ALEX IN NYC..HELL BENT ON HOMICIDE
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sunday, October 17, 2004, at 05:10 PM, Rob's
> > Arse
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> That's a good point Peter.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have teased Alex for ages about this, but I
> > have
> > >> always viewed the
> > >>> Dolls as Glam. Trashy, yes but Glam.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have always seen the Ramones as an update of
> > the
> > >> 60's garage bands.
> > >>> Great pop songs but never what I would term
> > >> "punk".
> > >>>
> > >>> Punk is much more than the music. I love the
> > >> nihilism of the Pistols
> > >>> and the general "up yours" attitude. The WHY?
> > >> That's why I belive that
> > >>> Punk is English.
> > >>>
> > >>> You American guys had a good go though. Full
> > marks
> > >> for effort lads ;-)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --- "peter.west410" <peter.west410 at ntlworld.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> From: "peter.west410"
> > <peter.west410 at ntlworld.com>
> > >>> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:56:59 +0100
> > >>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the
> > >> band!)"
> > >>> <gathering at misera.net>
> > >>> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not
> > all
> > >> of it
> > >>>
> > >>> I think that the NY dolls were part of the glam
> > >> movement,When exactly
> > >>> did
> > >>> the Ramones first tour the UK? and the Ramones
> > >> were never more than a
> > >>> cult
> > >>> band in the UK.
> > >>> Right, you can generally put any noisy, out of
> > >> tune band and say they
> > >>> were the original punk band ,some even give
> > >> examples of bands from the
> > >>> 60s
> > >>> ,saying they can be classed as punk.
> > >>> I think the only way to do it is to see where
> > the
> > >> first single which
> > >>> was punk as we know it,I put in a search for
> > >> "First punk single" and
> > >>> it came
> > >>> up with"New Rose" by "The Damned".
> > >>> Right, all we have to do is find out where The
> > >> Damned came from,and
> > >>> that place will be where punk originated.
> > >>> Does anyone know where The Damned came from?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: "Christof hamille"
> > >> <wessidetempest at hotmail.com>
> > >>> To: <gathering at misera.net>
> > >>> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 3:41 PM
> > >>> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not
> > all
> > >> of it
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Agreed Alex
> > >>>>
> > >>>> It seems to obvious. If you have not read or
> > >> figured out that none
> > >>> of the
> > >>>> punk bands in England happened until AFTER the
> > >> Ramones toured there
> > >>> then
> > >>> you
> > >>>> can look at McLaren and realize that he knew
> > >> NOTHING about it until
> > >>> he saw
> > >>>> Richard Hell in NYC and came back to England
> > >> with the infamous white
> > >>> Les
> > >>>> Paul that was passed on to Steve Jones. That
> > >> guitar was originally
> > >>> owned
> > >>> by
> > >>>> one Sylvain Sylvain of the NEW YORK DOLLS. And
> > >> along with that that
> > >>> is
> > >>>> where he got the idea of the tattered clothing
> > >> with the spray painted
> > >>>> phrases on them. So no matter how you slice it
> > >> it started in NYC. It
> > >>>> exploded in England.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> That is all of the repeated energy I am putting
> > >> into this
> > >>>>
> > >>>> enjoy
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Chris
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> From: Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
> > >>>>> Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing
> > Joke
> > >> (the band!)"
> > >>>>> <gathering at misera.net>
> > >>>>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the
> > >> band!)"
> > >>>>> <gathering at misera.net>
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not
> > >> all of it
> > >>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:02:47 -0400
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Not that it's not a compelling debate, Peter,
> > >> but with Mik Raven
> > >>> absent,
> > >>> I
> > >>>>> can't summon the stamina to get into it here
> > >> again.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I'll just cite two names to cement my point:
> > >> THE RAMONES and RICHARD
> > >>> HELL.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Alex in NYC
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Saturday, October 16, 2004, at 08:42 PM,
> > >> peter.west410 wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> "As was Punk Rock".
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> No way,It may have been conceived in NY,But
> > it
> > >> was born & breed in
> > >>> the
> > >>>>>> UK.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Original Message -----
> > >>>>>> From: "Rob's Arse" <joker at Z6.com>
> > >>>>>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke
> > (the
> > 
> === message truncated === 
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