[kj] UK Decay & the great "goth" debate

Tue Jan 18 09:59:44 EST 2005

I'm not *ARGUING* with you, Antoni, this is just a discussion, but if 
you want to put the lid on it, that's fine too.

Alex in NYC

On Tuesday, January 18, 2005, at 09:54 AM, <antoni at clara.net> wrote:

> Alex, I don't disgaree with you at all ... as I said, I thought it was 
> all post punk ... but I'm just reporting what I saw ... there's always 
> been a suggestion that UK Decay's singer Abbo first used the term 
> "goth" in an interview and therefore we have him to blame ... that NME 
> publication also features heavily The Birthday Party but then again 
> the Boys Next Door were an Aussie "new wave" who came over to the UK 
> and then allegedly struggled with the climate & the poverty - their 
> dishelleved drunken & drug crazed state was as much to do with that as 
> anything else (according to the "Bad Seed" biography of Nick Cave) and 
> they would sneak back to Oz to escape the harsh UK winter - again 
> could you really call Mick Harvey, Phil Calvert, Tracey Pew goths ? 
> Not at all. I dunno Alex. I've opened a can of worms here. It was just 
> nice to read something about that 80-81 period that I identified with. 
> I think we'll put this one to bed, yes ? Thanks.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alexander Smith
> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [kj] UK Decay & the great "goth" debate
>
> Surely, but Post-Punk doesn't necessarily equal "Goth". Public Image 
> Ltd., Gang of Four, the Pop Group -- these bands were also all 
> considered Post-Punk, but I think one would be very hard pressed to 
> make the argument that they were Goths in any way.
>
> Of course there are elements to Killing Joke's music that go 
> hand-in-hand with the Goth aesthetic (in much the same way there are 
> elements of Killing Joke's music that have ties to Punk Rock, Heavy 
> Metal, Funk, Disco and even Dub) yet the band handily transcends all 
> of those other categorizations.
>
> Alex in NYC
>
>
>
> On Monday, January 17, 2005, at 06:58 PM, <antoni at clara.net> wrote:
>
> ... but to be fair Alex, you've always said that you picked up on KJ 
> with Eighties so that was 1984 ... around 1980-81 there was an army of 
> fanatics into these bands ... the term "goth" had not really been 
> coined by then ... the likes of Siouxsie And The Banshees and The Cure 
> were still seen as punk or new wave ... neither were Theatre Of Hate a 
> "goth" band, rather a punky, sax driven sound with spaghetti-western 
> themes ... but a large number of punters were into all 4 bands ... 
> post-punk was what we (or at least I) called it ... and the fact was 
> that Killing Joke was part of that "scene" ... a scene with no name, 
> even before the The Face magazine decided to refer to the Blitz club 
> scene with a similar moniker ... as the New Romantics horrors 
> approached ...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alexander Smith
> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 11:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [kj] UK Decay & the great "goth" debate
>
>
> Always been curious to hear UK Decay after reading the embarrassingly 
> titled book, "The Dark Reign of Gothic Rock" (which, to its credit, 
> does *NOT* lump Killing Joke in with said scene). Killing Joke are 
> *NOT* Goths, dammit. I'm not knocking the Goths --- I'm a huge fan of 
> lots of that stuff, but facts be facts.
>
> Alex in NYC
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, January 17, 2005, at 05:01 PM, <antoni at clara.net> wrote:
>
>  
> One of the interesting articles in the newsletter is by a guy called 
> Paul Rab John who discusses the recent "NME Originals : Goth" 
> publication for it's concentration on big label acts (Banshees, Cult, 
> Bauhaus, Cure) and it's basic rewriting of history, NME style. Hardly 
> surprising really as the NME used to devote serious columns inches to 
> the likes of Blue Rondo a La Turk rather than report on the post punk 
> bands who were filling out the venues & being covered spiritedly by 
> the enormous network of fanzines. Back to 1980/1981 and PRJ refers to 
> the big "4", who were an alternative to pop/punk, New Romantic or 
> horrible sub-Sham pop music. They were (and he puts them in order of 
> importance) : Killing  Joke, Bauhaus, Theatre Of Hate, UK Decay.
>  
> Let's face it - there was a legion of young spiky haired guys walking 
> around with these names (often all of them) painted on their leather 
> jackets. PRJ goes on to rightly suggest that those bands spawned a 
> further wave (Southern Death Cult, Sex Gang Children, Sisters Of 
> Mercy, March Violets etc) and by the time that the NME 
> admitted/accepted there was a scene going on, they grasped new bands 
> Brigandage and Blood And Roses, stuck them on the cover, called the 
> movement "Positive Punk" and everybody cringed with embarrassment & 
> the whole thing became a laughing stock.
>  
>
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