[kj] Re: Gathering Digest, Vol 27, Issue 88 kj tour off
Georg P?r Sveinbj?rnsson
georgpetur at visir.is
Tue Mar 14 04:57:18 EST 2006
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:27:35 -0500 (EST)
gathering-request at misera.net wrote:
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> The Gathering - Digest
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: tour off.... (Alexander Smith)
> 2. RE: (OT) Iran/USA/Nuclear Weapons (god botherer)
> 3. RE: (OT) Iran/USA/Nuclear Weapons (FLIGHT BRINGER)
> 4. Fwd: meanwhile,the fat cats get fatter... (Papa Lazarou)
> 5. RE: (OT) Iran/USA/Nuclear Weapons (Papa Lazarou)
> 6. Re: (OT) Iran/USA/Nuclear Weapons (GregSlawson at aol.com)
> 7. Re: (OT) Iran/USA/Nuclear Weapons (bongo)
> 8. Re: OT: It's a Boy (Dirk Kingerske)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:16:50 -0500
> From: Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [kj] tour off....
> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> <gathering at misera.net>
> Message-ID: <2CD679B9-00DD-4285-952C-12D8A11CB1E9 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Oh do give me a break. If not for Raven, there'd barely BE a Killing
> Joke these days. He's clearly the most motivated and grounded one
> among them, full fucking stop.
>
> Alex in NYC
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2006, at 2:42 PM, first fossil wrote:
>
> > No! If he wants to play in Ministry instead and fuck up Killing
> > Joke tours, he should be sacked.
> >
> > fatpotanga <fatpotanga at gmail.com> escribió:
> > > april tour is cancelled apparently.
> >
> > Herrumpf :(
> >
> > Still, I'd rather wait & have it with raven
> >
> >
> >
This Are horrible news,have allready bought my flighttickets,and flying
> > from Iceland is NOT cheap,still cant belive this happening when everything
>>> was finally folding toghether for me,this is simply unacceptebul,damn it
>>> all,huge vaist of money and time,i really feel like breaking something!!!
Gathering mailing list
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> >
> >
> >
> > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
> > Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto.
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> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:38:45 +0000
> From: "god botherer" <acroastic at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [kj] (OT) Iran/USA/Nuclear Weapons
> To: gathering at misera.net
> Message-ID: <BAY106-F187E654BE30032BDE31773BCE10 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> I do not suggest that corporations who produce GM crops intend to bring
> about starvation. Corporations have no morality; their only aim is to
> maximise profits. But I don't know if I can be bothered to keep joining the
> dots for you.
>
> You've thrown Iran into the mix now. I repeat: I am not a seer or a prophet.
> There are many seemingly insoluble problems on this planet. You ask me what
> should be done, and presumably if I can't tell you what should be done, that
> proves a point does it? Let's take a step back. Why is it taken as read that
> it is incumbent upon someone to do something?
>
> This does connect up wiith what follows, so please read this as a whole.
>
> I am not happy that nuclear weapons exist at all, but they do. I'm not happy
> that my country has them, but, then again, if we didn't would we be more
> vulnerable? (We'll leave aside here the fact that we don't really have
> control over these weapons; a foreign nation does. That's another
> conversation.)
>
> If Iran had nuclear weapons though, do you honestly believe they would try
> to wipe out Israel? They would no more do that than either the USA or the
> USSR ever did. Who are you, I or anybody else to tell Iran they can't have
> these weapons when other countries do, including the country that has
> identified them as part of an axis of evil, has already attacked and
> occupied its neighbour, and has actually used nuclear weapons in warfare
> (and used many other nasties too).
>
> The sad fact is that the Israel problem, the Iraq problem, and many other
> problems are at least partly the result of historic meddling by the British
> and the Americans.
>
> Often the meddling is under the pretext of 'we should do something'. That's
> how it is sold. The real motive for the meddling is, however, imperialism,
> contol of markets and control of resources (like, say, ooh, I don't know,
> oil perhaps).
>
> I am wondering where you're coming from if you don't recognise this clearly
> identifiable trend occurring again and again throughout history, right up to
> the present day.
>
> I have sympathy with the poor sods around the world who have suffered at the
> hands of my country and the USA. Have you no idea of the anger felt around
> the world? Have you no idea of the reasons for that anger?
>
> Incidentally, whatever success in terms of democracy, civil liberties and
> human rights (all now in decline) was achieved in this Britain came after
> bitter civil war, religious persecution and class struggle over a long
> period. But this painful process was allowed to continue with a minimum of
> interference from other, more powerful states.
>
> If there had been an equivalent of today's USA in the 16th to 19th
> centuries, we'd have been invaded (for our own good) and fucked over again
> and again. We'd never have progressed in any way, and even now we'd be
> producing plenty of terrorists of our own.
>
> Perhaps we'd be trying to develop our own nuclear weapons too.
>
> I'm going to bed now.
>
> Good night
>
> gb
>
>
> >From: "FLIGHT BRINGER" <flightbringer at hotmail.co.uk>
> >Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> ><gathering at misera.net>
> >To: gathering at misera.net
> >Subject: RE: [kj] (OT) /GM crops/Iran
> >Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:46:31 +0000
> >
> >Western Governments spend Billions of ££E's giving aid to Third world
> >countries, its a massive operation to keep the World fed. Why would anyone
> >produce GM crops which will add to starvation? If theres not enough food to
> >go around now, why would Western Governments make the burden even bigger by
> >introducing GM crops? Do you think its so we can have a Live aid every so
> >often?
> > OK , forget Iraq, that is all in the past (well, and present, but
> >nevermind) how would you handle the forthcoming Iran problem? If you were
> >George Bush what would you do?
> > Iran wants to produce materials which can create Nuclear Bombs. Iran has
> >refused Russia's offer of these materials and wants to produce its own in
> >private. Iran has vowed to wipe Israel off the map. Israel will not sit
> >back and watch Iran build nuclear capabilities.
> > What is the solution? How would you handle the situation without the
> >benefit of hindsight?
> >
> >
> >>From: "god botherer" <acroastic at hotmail.com>
> >>Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> >><gathering at misera.net>
> >>To: gathering at misera.net
> >>Subject: RE: [kj] (OT) ID cards/GM crops/Iraq
> >>Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:28:39 +0000
> >>
> >>Just to address one of many points you raise about my original message,
> >>tests have shown that GM crops are ten times more likely to
> >>cross-pollinate than normal crops. If you are an organic farmer working
> >>land adjacent to a GM farmer you might as well give up, because like it or
> >>not you'll eventually end up with GM crops; moreover GM crops with sterile
> >>seeds.
> >>
> >>In fact you needn't be adjacent. The wind, bees, etc. will ensure that
> >>crops at a great distance will be affected.
> >>
> >>Unfortunately weeds are also transmuted and become immune to normal
> >>pesticides. So, far from reducing the use of pesticides, GM crops
> >>dramatically increase the need for incredibly strong pesticides with all
> >>that this entails.
> >>
> >>I wouldn't view things any differently in the absence of a KJ lyric sheet.
> >>
> >>I'm not a seer or a prophet. It's not difficult to assess the
> >>possibilities if you are aware. I'm not saying all these things will come
> >>to pass. They won't if enough people are both aware and active.
> >>
> >>Unfortunately, a great many people live in a Fool's Paradise. Nations and
> >>societies sleepwalk into disaster by small steps.
> >>
> >>I didn't need to be a visionary to see what a foolish move the invasion of
> >>Iraq would be. I didn't need to be able to see into the future to
> >>recognise that many innocent children would die, that tensions within the
> >>country would be ratcheted up, that the country would become a magnet for
> >>all sorts of anti-Western factions, that Muslims worldwide would be made
> >>more sceptical, that this would only increase the threat of terrorism,
> >>that many fine young men in the British and American armies would die
> >>futile deaths, etc. etc.
> >>
> >>Many things are entirely predictable.
> >>
> >>Let's hope you're right though, and that the central authority will
> >>continue to be the elected government. Mmmmm.
> >>
> >>gb
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: "FLIGHT BRINGER" <flightbringer at hotmail.co.uk>
> >>>Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> >>><gathering at misera.net>
> >>>To: gathering at misera.net
> >>>Subject: RE: [kj] (OT) ID cards/control
> >>>Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:29:16 +0000
> >>>
> >>>>The situation we are moving towards is one where all possible data is
> >>>>held on each individual, including their political dissent, etc. In
> >>>>addition, samples of your DNA will be held by the central authority -
> >>>>just think of the possibilities there. Each individual's movements and
> >>>>location at any time will be able to be tracked.
> >>>
> >>>***********They can have all the data they want on me, I have nothing to
> >>>hide. I would be pleased if everybody in the UK had a DNA sample stored
> >>>in a huge data bank, There will be no anonyminity for the murderers,
> >>>rapists and bombers. *****************
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Eventually the cards would be replaced by implants and who knows what
> >>>>the technological limitations of those could be?
> >>>**********How do you know this. Have you been reading the lyric sheet
> >>>again? We shall deal with the implant issue if and when it
> >>>arises.*************
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>The central authority will be multinational and composed of an elite who
> >>>>own the lion's share of the wealth.
> >>>***********The central authority will continue to be the elected
> >>>government******
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Any organised resistance to the status quo would be nigh-on impossible.
> >>>>Doubtless, opponents of the Nazis in their day would have been branded
> >>>>extremists.
> >>>********Can you see into the future? You seem to be making predictions
> >>>and using these predictions as if they were actual
> >>>facts********************
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>The basic right to save seeds to plant for the following year's crop
> >>>>will be taken away, since the GM crops, made with sterile seeds, will
> >>>>overwhelm the non GM crops. If people are unable or unwilling to pay the
> >>>>military/industrial/state rulers for new seeds, or are prohibited from
> >>>>doing so, the only option will be starvation.
> >>>
> >>>******GM crops will grow alongside normal crops. Governments have failed
> >>>miserably in trying to stop the growth of Heroin, Cocaine and Marihuana,
> >>>what makes you think that they will be able to stop people growing plants
> >>>that produce seed?************
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>When the whole system collapses, as even this one must eventually, death
> >>>>will already have been bred into organic life on earth. The future of
> >>>>the planet will look even less rosy.
> >>>*******These cards will safe guard the future, these cards will stop the
> >>>system from collapsing . These cards will stop people whose goal it is to
> >>>make the system collapse****
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>This is no longer a paranoid projection of a distant future, but a
> >>>>simple conclusion concerning a development that is well under way before
> >>>>your very eyes.
> >>>
> >>>********They are just introducing I.D cards which many other countries
> >>>have .You are over reacting ******
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Sun/Mail readers are 'educated' to lend their support with the 'if
> >>>>you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear' argument, and the
> >>>>control of immigration and terrorism arguments.
> >>>*********So how will it affect people who have nothing to hide and do not
> >>>want society bought down and replaced by an alien force? What about the
> >>>majority who are happy living in the status quo and who dont want change?
> >>>Why should they be concerned?*****
> >>>
> >>>_________________________________________________________________
> >>>The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search!
> >>>http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Gathering mailing list
> >>>Gathering at misera.net
> >>>http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:20:44 +0000
> From: "FLIGHT BRINGER" <flightbringer at hotmail.co.uk>
> Subject: RE: [kj] (OT) Iran/USA/Nuclear Weapons
> To: gathering at misera.net
> Message-ID: <BAY15-F1481800C5473FDF1EDD1A7EDE10 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Its just that you are ready to criticize everyone else for doing wrong, but
> you cannot say which is the right thing to do. Its so easy just to point out
> where Governments are going wrong, but unless you have a solution to the
> problems or at least offer an alternative, then your opinion is invalid .
> You also seem to suffering from a guilt complex.
>
> "If Iran had nuclear weapons though, do you honestly believe they would try
> to wipe out Israel?"
>
> Yes I do. Why would Iran want to build Nuclear Weapons unless it was for
> a specific purpose?
> Israel occupies Islam's third Holiest shrine (Jerusalem) . Arabs are
> constantly making devices and firing them into Israeli territory. Arabs have
> thrown everything they can get their hands on into Israeli territory over
> the years, so yes the threat is real.
> I asked you a straight question and would like a straight answer. How would
> you deal with the forthcoming Iran problem. Forget whose fault the situation
> is, Dont say what you would have done to avoid the conflict. How would you
> deal with the situation today ?
>
> "Have you no idea of the anger felt around the world? Have you no idea of
> the reasons for
> that anger?"
> I ve been to quite alot of countries and have nt noticed much anti
> American feeling. Most countries inhabitants cant get enough of Western
> Culture, Films , Sport and Music. America is not as hated as you would like
> too believe.
>
> P.S. I realise that you are not a Prophet, you really dont have to tell me.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
> 7.5 today! http://messenger.msn.co.uk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:14:27 -0800 (PST)
> From: Papa Lazarou <circuit_bender at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [kj] Fwd: meanwhile,the fat cats get fatter...
> To: "gathering at misera.net" <gathering at misera.net>
> Message-ID: <20060314021427.10806.qmail at web60811.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> The War Dividend: The British companies making a fortune out of
> conflict-riven Iraq
> By Robert Verkaik
>
> THE INDEPENDENT
> Published: 13 March 2006
>
> British businesses have profited by at least £1.1bn since coalition forces
> toppled Saddam
> Hussein three years ago, the first comprehensive investigation into UK
> corporate
> investment in Iraq has found.
> The company roll-call of post-war profiteers includes some of the best known
> names in
> Britain's boardrooms as well many who would prefer to remain anonymous. They
> come
> from private security services, banks, PR consultancies, urban planning
> consortiums, oil
> companies, architects offices and energy advisory bodies.
> Among the top earners is the construction firm Amec, which has made an
> estimated
> £500m from a series of contracts restoring electrical systems and maintaining
> power
> generation facilities during the past two years. Aegis, which provides
> private security has
> earned more than £246m from a three-year contract with the Pentagon to
> co-ordinate
> military and security companies in Iraq. Erinys, which specialises in the
> same area, has
> made more than £86m, a substantial portion from the protection of oilfields.
> The evidence of massive investments and the promise of more
> multimillion-pound profits
> to come was discovered in a joint investigation by Corporate Watch, an
> independent
> watchdog, and The Independent.
> The findings show how much is stake if Britain were to withdraw military
> protection from
> Iraq. British company involvement at the top of Iraq's new political and
> economic
> structures means Iraq will be forced to rely on British business for many
> years to come.
> A total of 61 British companies are identified as benefiting from at least
> £1.1bn of
> contracts and investment in the new Iraq. But that figure is just the tip of
> the iceberg;
> Corporate Watch believes it could be as much as five times higher, because
> many
> companies prefer to keep their relationship secret.
> The waters are further muddied by the Government's refusal to release the
> names of
> companies it has helped to win contracts in Iraq.
> Many of the companies enjoy long-standing relationships with Labour and now
> have a
> financial stake in the reconstruction of Iraq in Britain's image. Of the
> total profits
> published in the report, the British taxpayer has had to meet a bill for £78m
> while the US
> taxpayer's contribution to UK corporate earnings in Iraq is nearly nine times
> that. Iraqis
> themselves have paid British company directors £150m.
> The report acknowledges that British business still lags behind the huge
> profits paid to
> American companies. But, in two fields, Britain is playing a critical and
> leading role.
> The threat from the Iraqi insurgency means British private security companies
> are in great
> demand. Corporate Watch estimates there are between 20,000 and 30,000
> security
> personnel working in Iraq, half of whom are employed by companies run by
> retired senior
> British officers and at least two former defence ministers.
> The biggest British player, Aegis - run by Tim Spicer, the former British
> army lieutenant
> colonel who founded the security company Sandline - has a workforce the size
> of a
> military division and may rank as the largest corporate military group ever
> assembled,
> according to the report. Other private security companies have sprung up
> overnight to
> protect British and American civilians.
> Britain is also playing a leading role in advising on the creation of state
> institutions and
> the business of government. PA Consulting, which has also received a contract
> for
> advising on the Government's ID cards scheme, worth around £19m, is now a key
> adviser
> in Iraq.
> Adam Smith International, a body closely linked to the right-wing think-tank
> used by
> Margaret Thatcher, has been heavily involved in the foundation of the Iraqi
> government
> and continues to influence its newly formed ministries. According to the Tory
> MP Quentin
> Davies, who visited Iraq, the advisers are "reordering Iraqi government
> operations at the
> most basic level, to help restructure some of the Iraqi ministries, in fact
> physically
> restructure them, even suggesting how the minister's office should be laid
> out".
> Another favourite of the Thatcher governments, now involved in Iraq, is Tim
> Bell, who ran
> the Tories' election campaigns in 1979, 1983 and 1987. His PR firm
> Bell-Pottinger has
> been involved in advising on the 2004 elections and a strategic campaign to
> promote
> bigger concepts such as the return of sovereignty, reconstruction, support
> for the army
> and police, minority rights and public probity.
> Loukas Christodoulou, of Corporate Watch, has been monitoring British
> business relations
> with Iraq since the invasion. He says in his conclusion to our joint report:
> "The presence of
> these consultants in Iraq is arguably a part of the UK government's policy to
> push British
> firms as lead providers of privatisation support. The Department for
> International
> Development has positioned itself as a champion of privatisation in
> developing countries.
> The central part UK firms are playing in reshaping Iraq's economy and society
> lays the
> ground for a shift towards a corporate-dominated economy. This will have
> repercussions
> lasting decades."
> In five years, the £1.1bn of contracts identified in the report will be
> dwarfed by what
> Britain and the US hope to reap from investments. Highly lucrative oil
> contracts have yet to
> be handed out.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
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> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:51:39 -0800 (PST)
> From: Papa Lazarou <circuit_bender at yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: [kj] (OT) Iran/USA/Nuclear Weapons
> To: gathering at misera.net
> Message-ID: <20060314025139.745.qmail at web60813.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Spoken like a true newsreel, Peter.
> 'Iranian problem'. That's one powerful metonym.
> Follow the Leader anyone?
>
>
> FLIGHT BRINGER <flightbringer at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> To me an intelligent programme would be about finding a solution to the
> impending Iranian problem, not a character who only has a few slogans taking
> the place of speech.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
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> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:42:37 EST
> From: GregSlawson at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [kj] (OT) Iran/USA/Nuclear Weapons
> To: gathering at misera.net
> Message-ID: <2e3.3f8dd9c.314795ad at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> In a message dated 3/13/2006 9:51:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> circuit_bender at yahoo.com writes:
>
> > Spoken like a true newsreel, Peter.
> > 'Iranian problem'. That's one powerful metonym.
> > Follow the Leader anyone?
> >
>
> The US/UK media are giddy with excitement over people like Peter. Iran
> threatens to start selling oil/gas in Euros instead of US dollars, and they
> conveniently make up stories about Iran being a nuclear military threat, even
> though
> Iran can't even create a simple nuclear power plant. They report daily on
> Iranian Islamic fanaticsm, even though the US supplied the Ayatollah with
> arms
> throughout the 80s, and the CIA provided training for the equally fanatical
> fundamentalist Mujadeen (including Bin Laden), so they could fight the old
> Soviet
> Union (during the 70s, i believe). They do their best to get the Americans
> into
> an anti-arab hysteria, and people like Peter lap it up.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:55:22 +1300
> From: bongo <humanhybrid666 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [kj] (OT) Iran/USA/Nuclear Weapons
> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> <gathering at misera.net>
> Message-ID:
> <ce16091e0603131955u56a3e10fnc4631c7203da864a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> so tempting to want to jump in and start arguing with PW, but i'm sure we
> can all agree his head is up his bum so there's no real need to. ; )
> good posts tho god botherer, nicely put.
>
> ~jb.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:27:25 +0100
> From: "Dirk Kingerske" <dirkingerske at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [KJ] OT: It's a Boy
> To: gathering at misera.net
> Message-ID: <BAY109-F40CEDB24B742DD0AC4AE6ED1E10 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> congras Alex!
>
> Nice to hear everything worked out fine!
> All the best to your girls and OliverNYC
> Dirk (Oliver) Kingsnake
>
> >From: Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> ><gathering at misera.net>
> >To: Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
> >CC: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> ><gathering at misera.net>
> >Subject: Re: [KJ] OT: It's a Boy
> >Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:33:16 -0500
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Those curious to see the first pic of little Oliver, please click on the
> >link below:
> >
> >http://vassifer.blogs.com/alexinnyc/2006/03/its_a_boy.html
> >
> >Alex in NYC
> >
> >
> >
> >On Mar 10, 2006, at 10:25 PM, Alexander Smith wrote:
> >
> >>Hey there, all.....
> >>
> >>I'm happy to report that at 4:13 pm today -- Friday March 10, 2006 --
> >>our little boy announced his presence to the world with a diminutive
> >>barbaric yawp, weighing in at six pounds and three ounces. Much like his
> >>sister Charlotte, this little person decided to get a wee jump on things,
> >>arriving exactly a month before initially expected. Peggy and the baby
> >>are both resting back at the hospital. I'm now back home with Charlotte
> >>-- currently asleep and blissfully oblivious to the fact that tomorrow
> >>her world changes forever.
> >>
> >>Oh, and we have decided to name the little guy Oliver.
> >>
> >>Alex
> >
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>
>
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> End of Gathering Digest, Vol 27, Issue 88
> *****************************************
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