[kj] Jaz Straw

[flight Bringer]

It was nothing to do with anyone having power over anyone else . I felt that 
she was at a disadvantage because she could nt make herself understood .We 
should she not want me to see her facial expressions ? We were having a 
conversation ffs, not playing poker .
   We were both at a disadvantage , she could nt express herself properly 
and I could nt grasp what she meant . Its nothing to do with anyone having 
power over anyone else



>From: culturevirus <culturevirus at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the 
>band!)"<gathering at misera.net>
>To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" 
><gathering at misera.net>
>Subject: RE: [kj] Jaz Straw
>Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 12:45:04 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I understand your point, I think Jack Straw was saying the same thing. On 
>the whole I don't disagree with this feeling. To a certain degree she was 
>"empowered" or had power over you. Because of the head covering you were at 
>a disadvantage in reading her and were in effect disempowered. These are 
>reasonable concerns that people in multi-cultural societies need to address 
>and come to terms with. From what I can see in England you have a 
>significantly higher percent of Muslim women wearing this traditional 
>dress. Why don't you guys deal with this in an intelligent and peaceful 
>manner so we in the US have a good example to follow :^)
>
>flight Bringer <flightbringer at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:  "Such clothing can 
>make women feel empowered as they no longer face
>distracted men who are (even subconsciously) checking out their physical
>features and are forced to deal with the woman as a social equal."
>
>This is not the case. Most men feel uncomfortable when speaking to women
>wearing a hijab .I know that I did , I subconsciously did nt *connect* with
>her at all . I didn't feel like I was interacting with a human being, she
>seemed somewhat alien .
>We also read people facial expressions a great deal . You can grasp what
>the other person is thinking by their facial expressions and if you cannot
>see their face then you wont be able to fully understand their feelings . A
>frown or a smile is an indication of a positive or negative reaction to any
>given statement . You can also tell how serious a person is being by their
>facial expression.
>
>
>
> >From: culturevirus
> >Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the
> >band!)"
> >To: ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk,"A list about all things Killing Joke (the
> >band!)"
> >Subject: RE: [kj] Jaz Straw
> >Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:17:07 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >coming out of lurkdom again... being a US based person, the politics of
> >Britain are mostly unknown to me, but we have roughly the same set of
> >circumstances in the US. I have yet to hear/read of any of our 
>politicians
> >speaking on the subject in such a level-headed manner as Mr. Straw. Our
> >politicians tend to speak in small words and short sentences so as to
> >discourage deep thought on issues and therefore maintain knee-jerk voting
> >based on political hatred for "the other party".
> >
> >Ade's comment (echoed by a few others) reflects the way a lot of us
> >Westerners view the hijab: as a way to keep women down or force women to
> >shoulder the burden of policing the male sexual drive. I know part of me
> >feels that way as well. But as Straw pointed out early in his column, 
>many
> >women do choose to wear head coverings of some type. If you ask these 
>women
> >many of them will respond that like school uniforms it keeps them equal
> >with their peers and reduces the distraction of clothing differences and
> >focuses peoples attentions on the wearer and not the clothes. Such 
>clothing
> >can make women feel empowered as they no longer face distracted men who 
>are
> >(even subconciously) checking out their physical features and are forced 
>to
> >deal with the woman as a social equal.
> >
> >I recently read a book on the history of The Habit (Catholic nun garb) 
>and
> >many nuns feel the same way. Within the communities of these women there 
>is
> >disagreement over whether such attire has an overall positive or negative
> >affect on their place in society. Nearly all agree however, that it sets
> >them apart from other women and puts them in a frame of reference that is
> >unique among their sex.
> >
> >In a perfect world women will choose to wear such attire for what they 
>feel
> >it does for them as a person and not what their sub-culture expects of
> >them.
> >
> >
>
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