[kj] Jaz Straw - veils/chastity belts/dark ages

[Juliet Pleming]

Yes, I will continue to support you on this one Ade, 
 
I agree totally. We have to be careful when interacting with other
cultures because a lot of communication is based on having a shared
background, and involves more than language. There are a lot of unspoken
gestures etc. However, when someone from the outside enters a dominant
culture, the burden should be on them to fit into the prevailing
culture. Sure, they don't have to let go of their own culture altogether
and peripherally other cultures can enrich a dominant culture. But the
subculture is something to share with other people of the same culture
and not necessarily something to force onto others. I think it's all the
wrong way round at the moment with our culture bending over backward to
accommodate the intricacies of others. The burden is on THEM if they
want to join our culture they should be the ones to learn and take part
in our culture.
 
And, I do think it is oppressive for women to have to wear veils, and it
does smack of the dark ages when men locked women in chastity belts. It
is a practice based on ignorance and fear. Just because the women in
that culture have internalized the idea to the extent that they believe
it makes them safer, doesn't make it right. There is a well known
phenomenon where those who are oppressed take on the values of the
oppressor and internalize the belief and learn to believe it is for
their own good.
 
Lots of African women gladly go for circumcision and have their
clitorises cut out. No man will marry them otherwise. They don't think
of it in terms of having to do it because of that though. They
internalize the belief so much that they think that somehow they are
unclean unless they are butchered.
 
I have used that example again but there are plently of others I could
use.
 
Juliet
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]
On Behalf Of ade
Sent: 11 October 2006 23:01
To: 'Jim Harper'; 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)'
Subject: RE: [kj] Jaz Straw
Importance: High
 
Whitey - I think it got the point across well ! :)
 
If you ordered food from a restaurant in Big Gay Paris, who compromises?
The dude expects you to
have made the effort, so you have to order in the local tongue.
Otherwise the face gets pulled & the
interest in your order wanes.. (from previous experience! :)
 
Seems pretty one-way too, but I think entirely fair & I don't see it as
prejudice - it's about making
the effort. I think compromises HAVE to be made when it comes to
communication, in order to
'tune-in' to each other, but that does not render each party
transparent/devoid of culture. 
 
 
ade
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Harper [mailto:jimharper666 at yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 11 October 2006 21:21
To: ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk; A list about all things Killing Joke (the
band!)
Subject: RE: [kj] Jaz Straw
Forget the lazy characterizations, please, they're not applicable here.
 
I was simply posing the question: if one person feels there is no
impediment to communication, and another does, should Person A simply
accede to Person B's convenience? What compromise do you recommend?
Person A removes the veil, and Person B does their best to understand?
Not much of an equal compromise, is it? Person A changes, Person B
doesn't have to do anything?

ade <ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
So, in fact, the whole thing is whitey's problem & there's no compromise
required? Give And Take.
 


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