[kj] Jaz Straw - veils/chastity belts/dark ages

[flight Bringer]

"Lots of African women gladly go for circumcision and have their
clitorises cut out".

  I believe that this "operation" is carried out on children before they are 
aware of the situation. They dont have a choice in the matter . I would say 
that its all about Male domination over females , rather than beliefs about 
cleanliness . Women are less likely to stray from their Husbands if they 
dont have any urges in that department .
   Its an horrendous act of butchery and the pain must be immense for the 
Children .
Which asks the question : Do we have a right to try and put a stop to this 
practice , or is it interfering with other cultures .
  They also found the torso of an African boy in the Thames, he was the 
victim of witchcraft , also Victoria Columby(sp!!) suffered an horrific 
death due to relatives believe she was possessed.
  Do we have a right to impose our Western Christian standards on them , or 
is it seen as imposing our values on other cultures ?
   Should we accept it ?


>From: "Juliet Pleming" <price-pleming at tiscali.co.uk>
>Reply-To: price-pleming at tiscali.co.uk,"A list about all things Killing Joke 
>(the band!)"<gathering at misera.net>
>To: <ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk>,"'A list about all things Killing Joke (the 
>band!)'"<gathering at misera.net>
>Subject: RE: [kj] Jaz Straw - veils/chastity belts/dark ages
>Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 14:53:57 +0100
>
>Yes, I will continue to support you on this one Ade,
>
>I agree totally. We have to be careful when interacting with other
>cultures because a lot of communication is based on having a shared
>background, and involves more than language. There are a lot of unspoken
>gestures etc. However, when someone from the outside enters a dominant
>culture, the burden should be on them to fit into the prevailing
>culture. Sure, they don't have to let go of their own culture altogether
>and peripherally other cultures can enrich a dominant culture. But the
>subculture is something to share with other people of the same culture
>and not necessarily something to force onto others. I think it's all the
>wrong way round at the moment with our culture bending over backward to
>accommodate the intricacies of others. The burden is on THEM if they
>want to join our culture they should be the ones to learn and take part
>in our culture.
>
>And, I do think it is oppressive for women to have to wear veils, and it
>does smack of the dark ages when men locked women in chastity belts. It
>is a practice based on ignorance and fear. Just because the women in
>that culture have internalized the idea to the extent that they believe
>it makes them safer, doesn't make it right. There is a well known
>phenomenon where those who are oppressed take on the values of the
>oppressor and internalize the belief and learn to believe it is for
>their own good.
>
>Lots of African women gladly go for circumcision and have their
>clitorises cut out. No man will marry them otherwise. They don't think
>of it in terms of having to do it because of that though. They
>internalize the belief so much that they think that somehow they are
>unclean unless they are butchered.
>
>I have used that example again but there are plently of others I could
>use.
>
>Juliet
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]
>On Behalf Of ade
>Sent: 11 October 2006 23:01
>To: 'Jim Harper'; 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)'
>Subject: RE: [kj] Jaz Straw
>Importance: High
>
>Whitey - I think it got the point across well ! :)
>
>If you ordered food from a restaurant in Big Gay Paris, who compromises?
>The dude expects you to
>have made the effort, so you have to order in the local tongue.
>Otherwise the face gets pulled & the
>interest in your order wanes.. (from previous experience! :)
>
>Seems pretty one-way too, but I think entirely fair & I don't see it as
>prejudice - it's about making
>the effort. I think compromises HAVE to be made when it comes to
>communication, in order to
>'tune-in' to each other, but that does not render each party
>transparent/devoid of culture.
>
>
>ade
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Harper [mailto:jimharper666 at yahoo.co.uk]
>Sent: 11 October 2006 21:21
>To: ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk; A list about all things Killing Joke (the
>band!)
>Subject: RE: [kj] Jaz Straw
>Forget the lazy characterizations, please, they're not applicable here.
>
>I was simply posing the question: if one person feels there is no
>impediment to communication, and another does, should Person A simply
>accede to Person B's convenience? What compromise do you recommend?
>Person A removes the veil, and Person B does their best to understand?
>Not much of an equal compromise, is it? Person A changes, Person B
>doesn't have to do anything?
>
>ade <ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>So, in fact, the whole thing is whitey's problem & there's no compromise
>required? Give And Take.
>
>
>
>http://www.flipsidemovies.com
>http://jimharper.blogspot.com
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