[kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

[Leigh Newton]

No it's not!

----- Original Message ----
From: jo <jo at arcadia.karoo.co.uk>
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:46:07 AM
Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late


A debate is an argument.




>> This is a no win argument isn't it?

>

> I thought it more a debate !  Oh well, now I know better.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net

> [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Rob's Arse

> Sent: 18 December 2007 14:13

> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

>

>

>

> This is a no win argument isn't it?

> My personal reaction would be entirely different I am sure.

>

> But if justice has not been done, then it is the judical system that

 is 

> wrong. Not the offenders.

> What these boys did was hideous but each one of us should ask Are we

 the 

> same person we were when we were 10 years old?

>

> I know I am not. I know I have learnt a great deal and am thankful to

 my 

> parents, family amd community for making me who I am.

>

> If we do not forgive and accept wrong doing and the changes in

 people, 

> then how can we expect society to move on?

>

> An example of forgiveness - Nelson Mandella.

> Convicted terrorist who instigated the use of violence in South

 Africa.

>

> Now I'm not comparing them for their crimes but using this as an

 example 

> of forgiveness, change and understanding.

>

> People change. These boys committed a crime, were given a sentence

 and 

> served it.

> If that is not acceptable, let's change the system so that it does

 not 

> happen again.

>

>

>

> www.iamscuzzy.com www.myspace.com/scuzzywear

>

> --- pmdavies at gmail.com wrote:

>

> From: iPat <pmdavies at gmail.com>

> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" 

> <gathering at misera.net>

> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:12:23 +0000

>

> i can agree with you, but you are missing my point.

>

> its not about mr and mrs bulger dealing with their grief or wanting

> punishment is it. Its the people who attatch themselves to that and

> demand these things.

>

> Ade, i simply said why i wouldnt sign the petition, if you cant

 handle

> that then thats your issue but doesnt mean i should not be part of

 the

> debate.

>

> idealistic? who knows, but as you know im trained in various forms of

> fighting from bare hands to weapons. If anyone attcks me or my

 familly

> i will use those skills to serve the purpose. Thats personal

> responsibility. I dont surrender my destiny to the state or others.

> Nor though will i wallow in someone elses grief like people crowding

> round a road crash.

>

> the concept of Justice is a based on what? the law? The morality of

> Judea-Chritianity? im quite happy that these two will be monitored,

> its not right what they did, but if there is no redemption you may as

> well hand over the keys to the fascists who say they can identify in

> primary school who is going to be the bad ones. Lock them up in

> Guantamano Bay stylee and use the Bulger case as the justification

 and

> those of the poulation drip fed on tv shows will feel that they

 really

> are alive.

>

> You feed my son heroin and he dies then be aware ill knock on your

> door someday. Doesnt mean i want some jackbooted devient to do it on

> my behalf just to satisfy their impotence.

>

> On Dec 18, 2007 12:24 PM, ade <ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>> I disagree with yours & iPat's comments because they seem to factor

 out 

>> the original victim(s) completely.

>>

>> Why on earth wouldn't a mother kill to protect her young? If you

 can't 

>> grasp that, then it might be worth staying out of the debate.

>>

>> These replies seem very 'cold'. We'll never get rid of murder, so

 don't 

>> you think you're both being a little idealistic?

>>

>> iPat - idiots will always use something like this as an excuse to 

>> play-up. I'm not for vigilante's or chavs roaming the streets

 setting 

>> fire to paediatricians houses because they can't spell paedo!

>>

>> The reality is that there's a big emotional element to this, which

 needs 

>> to be factored in - you have to have a grasp of how the victims'

 families 

>> are affected (lives destroyed). Do they not count? If they don't,

 then 

>> NOBODY gets justice.

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