[kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

[Per G Olsson]

	I didn't sign up for this - this list is for debate - not simple  
contradictions!


18 dec 2007 kl. 18.11 skrev jo:


> Oooh yes it is!

>

>

>

>

>> No it's not!

>>

>> ----- Original Message ----

>> From: jo <jo at arcadia.karoo.co.uk>

>> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)  

>> <gathering at misera.net>

>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:46:07 AM

>> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

>>

>>

>> A debate is an argument.

>>

>>

>>

>>>> This is a no win argument isn't it?

>>>

>>> I thought it more a debate !  Oh well, now I know better.

>>>

>>> -----Original Message-----

>>> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net

>>> [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Rob's Arse

>>> Sent: 18 December 2007 14:13

>>> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>>> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> This is a no win argument isn't it?

>>> My personal reaction would be entirely different I am sure.

>>>

>>> But if justice has not been done, then it is the judical system that

>> is

>>> wrong. Not the offenders.

>>> What these boys did was hideous but each one of us should ask Are we

>> the

>>> same person we were when we were 10 years old?

>>>

>>> I know I am not. I know I have learnt a great deal and am  

>>> thankful to

>> my

>>> parents, family amd community for making me who I am.

>>>

>>> If we do not forgive and accept wrong doing and the changes in

>> people,

>>> then how can we expect society to move on?

>>>

>>> An example of forgiveness - Nelson Mandella.

>>> Convicted terrorist who instigated the use of violence in South

>> Africa.

>>>

>>> Now I'm not comparing them for their crimes but using this as an

>> example

>>> of forgiveness, change and understanding.

>>>

>>> People change. These boys committed a crime, were given a sentence

>> and

>>> served it.

>>> If that is not acceptable, let's change the system so that it does

>> not

>>> happen again.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> www.iamscuzzy.com www.myspace.com/scuzzywear

>>>

>>> --- pmdavies at gmail.com wrote:

>>>

>>> From: iPat <pmdavies at gmail.com>

>>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

>>> <gathering at misera.net>

>>> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

>>> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:12:23 +0000

>>>

>>> i can agree with you, but you are missing my point.

>>>

>>> its not about mr and mrs bulger dealing with their grief or wanting

>>> punishment is it. Its the people who attatch themselves to that and

>>> demand these things.

>>>

>>> Ade, i simply said why i wouldnt sign the petition, if you cant

>> handle

>>> that then thats your issue but doesnt mean i should not be part of

>> the

>>> debate.

>>>

>>> idealistic? who knows, but as you know im trained in various  

>>> forms of

>>> fighting from bare hands to weapons. If anyone attcks me or my

>> familly

>>> i will use those skills to serve the purpose. Thats personal

>>> responsibility. I dont surrender my destiny to the state or others.

>>> Nor though will i wallow in someone elses grief like people crowding

>>> round a road crash.

>>>

>>> the concept of Justice is a based on what? the law? The morality of

>>> Judea-Chritianity? im quite happy that these two will be monitored,

>>> its not right what they did, but if there is no redemption you  

>>> may as

>>> well hand over the keys to the fascists who say they can identify in

>>> primary school who is going to be the bad ones. Lock them up in

>>> Guantamano Bay stylee and use the Bulger case as the justification

>> and

>>> those of the poulation drip fed on tv shows will feel that they

>> really

>>> are alive.

>>>

>>> You feed my son heroin and he dies then be aware ill knock on your

>>> door someday. Doesnt mean i want some jackbooted devient to do it on

>>> my behalf just to satisfy their impotence.

>>>

>>> On Dec 18, 2007 12:24 PM, ade <ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>>>> I disagree with yours & iPat's comments because they seem to factor

>> out

>>>> the original victim(s) completely.

>>>>

>>>> Why on earth wouldn't a mother kill to protect her young? If you

>> can't

>>>> grasp that, then it might be worth staying out of the debate.

>>>>

>>>> These replies seem very 'cold'. We'll never get rid of murder, so

>> don't

>>>> you think you're both being a little idealistic?

>>>>

>>>> iPat - idiots will always use something like this as an excuse to

>>>> play-up. I'm not for vigilante's or chavs roaming the streets

>> setting

>>>> fire to paediatricians houses because they can't spell paedo!

>>>>

>>>> The reality is that there's a big emotional element to this, which

>> needs

>>>> to be factored in - you have to have a grasp of how the victims'

>> families

>>>> are affected (lives destroyed). Do they not count? If they don't,

>> then

>>>> NOBODY gets justice.

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