[kj] 1000 SUNS Outside Gate and PHANTASMAGORIA

[jpwhkj at aol.com]

Actually a lot of punky bands underwent massive changes in the mid-eighties, and lists devouted to them are probably right now saying "album xyz was a drastic change. Does anyone know of any similar band having such a drastic change or will this go down as a record breaking event."
 
For example (some as already discussed):
 
Damned - Phantasmagoria
Killing Joke - Brighter Than A Thousand Suns and Outside The Gate
Stranglers - Aural Sculpture
999 - <I can't remember but it was dross>
Blitz - not sure about the album, but the single was called Solar
The Clash - Combat Rock and Cut The Crap
The Adicts - when they changed their name to ADX
etc
 
The bands invariably justified it in interviews as "we can play better now" or "we wanted to reach a new audience" or "we wanted to make some money and get on TOTP".  Actually, I don't recall anyone saying the latter, but...
 
Jamie
 
PS I actually *like* some of those albums (especially Brighter) but they were all disappointments at the time, even if I tried to pretend that they weren't!
 
 

----- Original Message ----
From: peter muckle <pmuckle00 at hotmail.com>
To: vassifer at earthlink.net
Cc: gathering at misera.net
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:19:09 PM
Subject: Re: [kj] 1000 SUNS Outside Gate and PHANTASMAGORIA


I have to agree with you, Outside the Gate was a drastic change.
Does anyone know of any similar band having such a drastic change or will 
this go down as a record breaking event.

Pete



>From: Alex Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>

>Reply-To: Alex Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>,"A list about all things 

>Killing Joke (the band!)"<gathering at misera.net>

>To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" 

><gathering at misera.net>, "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" 

><gathering at misera.net>

>Subject: Re: [kj] 1000 SUNS and PHANTASMAGORIA

>Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:55:52 -0500 (EST)

>

>

>I don't remember being as crushed by hearing "Grimly Fiendish" by the 

>Damned as I was when I first heard "Adorations" by the `Joke, but then -- I 

>was always *way* more into the `Joke. Still not a fan of that single. When 

>the album came out, there were at least a few tracks with oomph to them 

>(notably "Chessboards" and "Rubicon") and its aged fairly well, I'd say, 

>but it's never been one of my favorites.

>

>That all said, *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING* can compare to the jaw-dropping 

>disbelief and abject disapointment I felt when I first heard "America" (to 

>say nothing of the rest of the album that spawned it).

>

>Alex in NYC

>

>

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

> >From: gingoblin at easynet.co.uk

> >Sent: Feb 22, 2007 4:36 PM

> >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" 

><gathering at misera.net>

> >Subject: Re: [kj] 1000 SUNS and PHANTASMAGORIA

> >

> >Indeed, and an era for both bands that I now look back on and think "hmm,

> >not the best really, no matter how hard I tried to convince myself

> >otherwise at the time"!  Actually, wasn't keen on 1000 Suns when it came

> >out either (and no, let's not start that one again!)

> >

> >

> >At 20:39 22/02/2007 +0000, you wrote:

> >>This was a new chapter for the damned, similar to the Killing Joke era 

>of

> >>1000 Suns.

> >>

> >>

> >> >From: "Jerry Butson" <jerry at fleamusic.com>

> >> >Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the

> >> >band!)"<gathering at misera.net>

> >> >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> >> ><gathering at misera.net>

> >> >Subject: Re: [kj] OT: in Defense of PHANTASMAGORIA by the Damned

> >> >Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 12:50:52 +0000

> >> >

> >> >My vote for one of the Damned's finest vinyl moments goes to he 12" 

>version

> >> >of Alone Again Or in its breakneck speed, edited

> >> >on-the-fly-with-a-pair-of-rusty-scissors version...fantastic!

> >> >

> >> >On 22/02/07, gingoblin at easynet.co.uk <gingoblin at easynet.co.uk> wrote:

> >> >>

> >> >>Yeah, I do kinda enjoy Phantasmagoria the very few times I play it 

>these

> >> >>days, but after all these years I've realised for it to REALLY be the

> >> >>Damned, it needs Vanian/Scabies/Sensible. They've had their moments 

>with

> >> >>the different line-ups, but nothing even comes close to the amazing 

>stuff

> >> >>of the earlier years.   I remember hearing a comp CD in some pub... 

>it was

> >> >>absolute genius right up to Grimly Fiendish coming on, when I wished 

>it

> >> >>would just end. Kinda summed it up for me.

> >> >>As for their "image"... as Scabies said, Vanian could dress as a 

>binman

> >> >>and

> >> >>still look good, while he himself could put on the finest clothes and

> >> >>still

> >> >>be a mess!!

> >> >>Must admit, can't stand Eloise... though that's possibly from it 

>being the

> >> >>"hit" and having heard it way too often over the years. The current

> >> >>line-up

> >> >>do the best version so far, but could still do without it!

> >> >>Oh, and the Five Foot One thing... I came out and directly asked them

> >> >>around that time, and they didn't own up!  I recall asking Rat if 

>covering

> >> >>Five Foot One had anything to do with Vanian's height (to which he 

>replied

> >> >>"oh, I wouldn't say that to him"!!). Ah, my ever-tactful youth!

> >> >>

> >> >>Dave in Edinburgh

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>

> >> >>At 09:15 21/02/2007 -0500, you wrote:

> >> >>

> >> >> >Just a few words in defense of PHANTASMAGORIA. I was shocked as 

>everyone

> >> >> >else at said album's comparatively gloppy overproduction. Despite 

>the

> >> >> >funereal trappings, it owed more to the likes of Meat Loaf and 

>Bonnie

> >> >> >Tyler than it did to any Goth making the `rounds at the time (by

> >> >> >comparison, the Sisters of Mercy sound like the Ramones). That 

>said,

> >> >>there

> >> >> >were still some fine moments of pure pop on it (notably "Street of

> >> >>Dreams"

> >> >> >and "Grimly Fiendish", although "Is It A Dream?" is just crap 

>across the

> >> >> >board). I'm also a big fan of the non-album single "Eloise," 

>another

> >> >> >hoarily windswept and overproduced gem. Was in Punk? Not 

>especially, but

> >> >> >who cares?

> >> >> >

> >> >> >As a college freshman in 1985 out in the bowels of Ohio, I remember

> >> >> >packing into a crowded station wagon to drive across scary,

> >> >>backwoods-ass

> >> >> >Midwestern pigfuck country to Kentucky to catch the Damned on the

> >> >> >PHANTASMAGORIA tour (which, for some reason, bypassed the nearest 

>city

> >> >>to

> >> >> >our school, Columbus). As over-the-top as their image and aesthetic 

>had

> >> >> >become (Hammer horror films, candelabras, graveyard shtick), they 

>were

> >> >>as

> >> >> >full-on live as can be imagined (and yes -- quite definably PUNK in

> >> >>every

> >> >> >semblance of the term).

> >> >> >

> >> >> >I've grown to quite like the PHANTASMAGORIA album as a result. 

>There are

> >> >> >some great moments on ANYTHING as well (notably their cover of 

>"Alone

> >> >> >Again Or" and the title track, which is essentialy a 

>wafer-thin-re-write

> >> >> >of Iggy Pops "Five Foot One"). I saw them again with Brian James et 

>al.

> >> >>on

> >> >> >the tour that resulted in the FINAL DAMNATION tour (`90 or so?) at 

>the

> >> >>New

> >> >> >Ritz, and they were endearingly shambollic. The last time I saw 

>them was

> >> >> >in the mid-90's at since-shuttered Coney Island High. I don't 

>believe

> >> >>Rat

> >> >> >was in attendance, but Dave was there in all his ridiculous glory. 

>It

> >> >>was

> >> >> >fun to see them, but it wasn't really "the Damned" as I'd grown to 

>love.

> >> >> >

> >> >> >I haven't picked up a new album/single of theirs since I can't 

>remember

> >> >> >when, honestly. But I listened to a clutch of Damned tracks on my 

>walk

> >> >>to

> >> >> >work this morning, and the mere fact that their catalog stretches 

>from

> >> >>the

> >> >> >stripped-down velocity of "Fish" and "Neat Neat Neat" through to 

>the

> >> >> >ersatz psychedelia of the Naz Nomad stuff and onto their 

>vanglorious

> >> >> >opuses (opi?) like the afore-mentioned "Eloise" is a testament to 

>their

> >> >> >versatility.

> >> >> >

> >> >> >Bless'em.

> >> >> >

> >> >> >Alex in NYC

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >> >-----Original Message-----

> >> >> > >From: Mike Porthouse <Mike at rteltd.com>

> >> >> > >Sent: Feb 21, 2007 4:02 AM

> >> >> > >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> >> >> > <gathering at misera.net>

> >> >> > >Subject: Re: [kj] Clip of US punk documentary/riots

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > >Had the pleasure of seeing the current Damned line-up a couple of

> >> >>times

> >> >> > last

> >> >> > >year (Vanian, Sensible, Stu, Pinch and Monty) and I have to say

> >> >>they're

> >> >>in

> >> >> > >good form. Best I've seen them since the re-union shows in about 

>88 or

> >> >>89.

> >> >> > >Vanian and Sensible have a massive stage presence and they're now

> >> >>playing

> >> >> > >with good musicians. Always a good night out. Some good new songs 

>and

> >> >>a

> >> >> > back

> >> >> > >catalogue of classics. The only thing for me, which keeps them 

>from

> >> >>being

> >> >> > >right up there with the best is their lyrics, which have never 

>been

> >> >> > anything

> >> >> > >to get excited about.

> >> >> > >BTW the recent MGE DVD release is very good for any Damned fans 

>who

> >> >>don't

> >> >> > >already own it.

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > >Mike Porthouse

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > >----- Original Message -----

> >> >> > >From: <gingoblin at easynet.co.uk>

> >> >> > >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> >> >> > ><gathering at misera.net>

> >> >> > >Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:32 PM

> >> >> > >Subject: Re: [kj] Clip of US punk documentary/riots

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > >

> >> >> > >> This was last July, and yes it WAS interesting to say the

> >> >>least!  Fucking

> >> >> > >> great, even if Casey Chaos's voice was shot.

> >> >> > >>

> >> >> > >> They came VERY close to doing it with Dave and Cap, but that's

> >> >>another

> >> >> > >> story.  It is a shame though... 30 years comes round once.

> >> >> > >>

> >> >> > >> There was talk of doing a few more dates, but nothing more than

> >> >>that.

> >> >>You

> >> >> > >> never know though!

> >> >> > >>

> >> >> > >> A couple of pics from the gig :

> >> >> > >>

> >> 

> >>http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/GinGoblin/100ClubJuly6th20068.jpg

> >> >> > >>

> >> >> > >>

> >> 

> >>http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/GinGoblin/100ClubJuly6th20067.jpg

> >> >> > >>

> >> >> > >> Dave

> >> >> > >>

> >> >> > >> At 13:34 20/02/2007 -0500, you wrote:

> >> >> > >>>So the Brian James Gang thing made me curious again.  Don't own 

>the

> >> >> > >>>release

> >> >> > >>>but it sounds promising even the simplistic, idiotic lyrics.  

>Vocals

> >> >>are

> >> >> > >>>fine.  So I stumble across their (always dreaded) myspace page:

> >> >> > >>>

> >> 

> >>http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friend

> >> >> > id=106508478

> >> >> > >>>

> >> >> > >>>and what do I see...

> >> >> > >>>DAMNED 30th ANNIVERSARY LINE-UP:

> >> >> > >>>Brian James-Guitar,

> >> >> > >>>Rat Scabies-Drums

> >> >> > >>>Mani-Bass

> >> >> > >>>Casey Chaos-Voice

> >> >> > >>>

> >> >> > >>>This could be interesting.  Shame they couldn't do it with 

>Captain

> >> >>and Rat

> >> >> > >>>

> >> >> > >>>Anyone have anymore details???  IS there a snowballs chance in 

>hell

> >> >>thisis

> >> >> > >>>coming to the US?  I would actually go see this

> >> >> > >>>

> >> >> > >>>Chris

> >> >> > >>>

> >> >> > >>>

> >> >> > >>> >From: "TB" <Partyslammer at socal.rr.com>

> >> >> > >>> >Reply-To: TB <Partyslammer at socal.rr.com>,"A list about all 

>things

> >> >> > >>> >Killing

> >> >> > >>> >Joke (the band!)"<gathering at misera.net>

> >> >> > >>> >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> >> >> > >>> ><gathering at misera.net>

> >> >> > >>> >Subject: Re: [kj] Clip of US punk documentary/riots

> >> >> > >>> >Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 09:10:33 -0800

> >> >> > >>> >

> >> >> > >>> >"Rob's Arse" wrote:

> >> >> > >>> >

> >> >> > >>> > >

> >> >> > >>> > > Grave disorder really was a return to form but Not of this

> >> >>Earth

> >> >>was

> >> >> > >>> > > terrible!

> >> >> > >>> > >

> >> >> > >>> > > I remember seeing them at the time with Scabies on drums,

> >> >>Vanian

> >> >>on

> >> >> > >>> > > Vocals, Moose from NMA on bass with Kris Dollimore (Mr 

>Session

> >> >> > >>> > > guitar)

> >> >> > >>> >and

> >> >> > >>> > > Vanian's Grandad (wearing a LEATHER WASTECOAT).

> >> >> > >>> > > I left that gig totally heartbroken. They were shitter 

>than

> >> >>shit.

> >> >> > >>> > >

> >> >> > >>> > > As an aside, we played wit teh Brian James Gang the other 

>week

> >> >>and I

> >> >> > >>> >have

> >> >> > >>> > > to say that Brian James is a lovely bloke. Shame there 

>were

> >> >>only

> >> >>25

> >> >> > >>> >people

> >> >> > >>> > > at the gig!

> >> >> > >>> >

> >> >> > >>> >Did Brian have Dave Tregunna with him on bass? Any Lords 

>tunes

> >> >>played?

> >> >> > >>> >More

> >> >> > >>> >details, man!

> >> >> > >>> >

> >> >> > >>> >T.B.

> >> >> > >>> >

> >> >> > >>> >

> >> >> > >>> >_______________________________________________

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> >> >> > 

> >>>_________________________________________________________________

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> >> 

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> >> >>2/19/2007

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