[kj] ChangeTin, change

[Mister Black]

Well Chaz , You also seem to have difficulty understanding posts , either that or you also interpret them that way you want, rather than what the message says , you also change the facts to suit your beliefs, and your post below just proves this.
  I did not deny that rapes and murders by US troops have happened in Iraq , but I was questioning Gregs allegations that he says that rapes and murders happen on a daily basis . You seem to have came to the conclusion  that I was denying that they happen at all . How did you manage to misinterpret what I said? It just dont make sense .
  Greg says that rapes and murders happen on  a daily basis, I say that they dont happen on a daily basis and then you try to prove that I'm wrong by stating that they do happen!!! *In a daily basis * was what was being questioned, NOT whether they happen at all.
    Its also irrelevant as to whether WMD's were actually found or not . The terms of the 1991 ceasefire agreement were  that U.N inspectors must have free access to anywhere they want to go to in Iraq , Saddam broke these terms and the war restarted .
  Saddams crime was to deny UN inspectors entry into the country, that alone was reason enough reason  to re invade Iraq


========================================
Message Received: Jul 27 2007, 02:59 PM
From: "chaz prior" 
To: gathering at misera.net
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [kj] ChangeTin, change


what's your problem Mr. Black?
you seem to think you are above everyone else and more intelligent
when quite frankly you have stuck your head in the sand when it comes to the war in iraq, surely not the actions of an intelligent man
 
the war was started over "weapons of mass destruction" which were never uncovered, making the war illegal, 
Rape and murders do happen by troops, last year men were tried after pictures where found of them torturing iraqi prisoners, are you saying this is a one off never to happen again? what about the ones that don't take pictures to record the pain and hurt they have caused their victims.
 
you say to "seek the truth and stop believing in falsehoods" yet you can just take the propaganda of the media as gospel truth? 
why don't you take your own advice and seek the truth and true knowledge, then maybe your philosophy can expand past that which the media prints


Chaz




From: mrblack_000 at fsmail.net
To: gathering at misera.net
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:45:23 +0200
Subject: Re: [kj] ChangeTin, change

Greg : You are alleging that rape and murder is committed by American troops in Iraq on a daily basis? May I suggest that you are over reacting and exaggerating? Again you are stuck in that intellectual cul-de -sac , and in a bid to make that square block fit in the round hole, you invent truths to fit in with your perception of the reality , you are dealing in lies and falsehoods again  Greg , you make things up because the reality of how you perceive things doesnt actually tally up with the true reality .
  Why deal in facts and truth Greg , when lies fit in with your perceptions better?
The facts are that rape and murder in Iraq doe s NOT happen on a daily basis in Iraq, by American troops , yes it may happen , but it is sporadic and the perpetrators are caught and punished . Rape and murder happen everyday in every Country in the World and in war situations , this crime is likely to happen more often , so for you to make out that rape and murder happen on a daily basis inn Iraq is yourself just using your imagination .
  You are dishonest Greg and you bend the truth and makes things up on a daily basis , is this because you know no better or is it because you want to deceive people by spreading falsehoods and starting rumors?
 
========================================
Message Received: Jul 27 2007, 01:37 AM
From: "GREG SLAWSON" 
To: gathering at misera.net
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [kj] ChangeTin, change



Actually a few US troops were just sentenced yesterday for pre-meditated rape and murder, etc., but this is only the tip of the iceburg of what goes on every day (as some vets will admit)... 






From:  Mister Black 
Reply-To:  mrblack_000 at fsmail.net,"A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
To:  "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" 
Subject:  Re: [kj] ChangeTin, change
Date:  Fri, 27 Jul 2007 01:20:12 +0200 (CEST)


You cannot seroiously suggest that American troops may be arrested  , the 1948 Nuremberg laws was put in place for extreme crimes and genocide by the Nazis , has any soldiers ever been prosecuted by their own nation for fighting in a war ?

   You can say all you like and twist it as much as you like, but the bottom line is that Saddam refused to abide by the 1991 ceasefire agreement, which this alone makes the latest Iraq war justified and legal , and I'm really not interested on what some person that I ve never heard of thinks .

  The War was a legal war due to saddanm not complying with the 19991 ceasefire agreement. Its that simple.





========================================
Message Received: Jul 27 2007, 12:07 AM
From: "GREG SLAWSON" 
To: gathering at misera.net
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [kj] ChangeTin, change


The debate about whether or not the IRaq troops are guilty is an important debate that we often have in my commie party...speaking of, has anyone seen the film "Sir, No Sir!". It's about the resistance and rebellion against the war by the GIs in Vietnam and is supposed to be awesome...people in my party often say that this was the main reason (troop rebellion) the US didn't "win" in Vietnam...There are also at least a couple of Iraq war veteran groups that are against the war.






From:  "B. Oliver Sheppard" 
Reply-To:  "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
To:  "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" 
Subject:  Re: [kj] ChangeTin, change
Date:  Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:39:36 -0500

>The troops made a choice to become troops, knowing what that 

>entailed. That they had no choice but to become troops isn't true. 

>There are civil organizations like AmeriCorps that provide college 

>funds, etc., for doing community service in domestic US 

>neighborhoods. That is one alternative to the army among many for 

>those who say they just did it for college or job training. (And if 

>our society is so pathetic someone must be militarized to get an 

>education or a job, then something is wrong there, too.)

>

>The Nuremberg Principles, derived from the Nuremberg Trials, state 

>that soldiers have a duty to disobey orders they know to breach 

>international law, or the law in general. Many US soldiers have done 

>that for the current Iraq war and are protesting it. Those are the 

>only troops I support.

>

>-Oliver

>

>

>ade wrote:

>>We also may not agree with the reason the troops are in Iraq, but 

>>of course, the troops don't have much choice... yet again, w at nky 

>>politicians fuck with lives... this is used by the pro-war morons 

>>to say people against the war have it in for the troops - utter 

>>bollox.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

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