[kj] OT- Alex, Johnny speaks of the Ramones

[powens]

Long enough to lift ideas and apply them to the Pistols?

John-Paul

On 22/09/2007, Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:

>

>

> My point is that ultimately, McLaren was associated with the `Dolls only

> for a short while.

>

> Alex in NYC

>

>

> On Sep 22, 2007, at 4:02 PM, powens wrote:

>

> And that would be relevant how?

>

> John-Paul

>

> On 22/09/2007, Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:

> >

> >

> > To be fair, McLaren "managed" the `Dolls in their death throes (`twas

> > his idea to garb them in red patent leather and adorn them with communist

> > imagery), well after their initial heyday.

> >

> > Alex in NYC

> >

> >

> > On Sep 22, 2007, at 3:46 PM, powens wrote:

> >

> > I just cited the NY Dolls because they were so obviously influential on

> > both the US and UK punk scene. In "End of the Century" Joey says the NY

> > dolls were a prime influence and of course the NY Dolls were managed by

> > McClaren before he managed the Pistols.

> >

> > If your going to cite the Stooges as punk you may as well go the whole

> > hog and go back as far as the MC5 and be done with it.

> >

> > John-Paul

> >

> > On 22/09/2007, Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:

> > >

> > > Agreed. The Stooges' three records still sound feral and loose (pardon

> > > the pun) and exciting (wish I could say the same about THE WEIRDNESS, but

> > > alas -- can't).

> > >

> > > By the time I first heard the New York Dolls, I'd already heard the

> > > legions of crappy metal bands they'd inspired, thus they didn't sound as

> > > seismic as I'd read. I suppose in the dull, grey doldrums of the early

> > > 1970s, they probably sounded pretty revolutionary, though.

> > >

> > > Alex in NYC

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On Sep 22, 2007, at 3:13 PM, Tim Bucknall wrote:

> > >

> > > the Stooges stuff has def  stood the test of time better than the

> > > dolls stuff , which sounds very dated

> > >

> > > but the stooges stuff sounds totally contemporary

> > >

> > >

> > >  On 21/09/2007, Alexander Smith < vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >  Kiss were *HUGELY* influenced by the `Dolls, there's no denying it

> > > > (Peter Criss was also friends with some of them). But I think the Punks cite

> > > > the `Dolls more for their spectacle-laden aesthetic, their "in your face"

> > > > attitude and their style of playing, which accented energy and aggression

> > > > over musicianship and finesse.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > But yeah, no Stooges = no Punk Rock.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > For his part, Johnny Rotten cites Alice Cooper as a massive

> > > > influence (and even wrote the `Coop's liner notes on his box set of a few

> > > > years back).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Alex in NYC

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >  On Sep 21, 2007, at 12:06 PM, Neil Perry wrote:

> > > >

> > > >  Nah, not me (not that I'm an 'original' punk...)

> > > >

> > > > I always presumed the first 'punk' band, in terms of a musical

> > > > style/nihilistic attitude, was The Stooges. Don't really count

> > > > the NY Dolls, but then never really rated them - to me if they

> > > > influenced anyone it was Kiss (which is another gulf between

> > > > US/UK perceptions).

> > > >

> > > > Why did the Sex Pistols cover 'No Fun'? The Stooges were 'punk'

> > > > before the

> > > > term/movement/whatever had been coined/invented.

> > > >

> > > > N

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > *Leigh Newton < angrytomhanks at yahoo.com >* wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Are all the original brit-punks this easily offended?

> > > >

> > > > ----- Original Message ----

> > > > From: iPat

> > > > To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

> > > > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 11:23:11 AM

> > > > Subject: Re: [kj] OT- Alex, Johnny speaks of the Ramones

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > thats what gets peoples back up when it comes down to it, this

> > > > rather

> > > > patronising attitude.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, my money's on the Brits.

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> > > >

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