[kj] ot new york hadfirst punks,sorry mik ;)

[Alexander Smith]

"I know a lot of historians/writers/critics say 1975, which I think is  
about right, everything else ebing even (which it isn't)"

If that's right (as you say it is), that it renders your initial  
statement about the Stooges and the MC5 moot, as they were all done by  
`75.

Whatever. Since joining the Gathering in 1999, I've had *FAR TOOOOO  
MANY* debates about the origins of Punk. It's not that I don't care  
anymore, it's that it's simply not worth it.

No future.

Alex in NYC

On Jan 24, 2008, at 4:26 PM, B. Oliver Sheppard wrote:


> Iggy, Dead Boys, MC5 all originally from Midwest. MC5 = "Motor City  

> 5." "Motor City" = Detroit, not NYC.

>

> But, yes, this is an endleslly contentious debate, and a lot of it  

> depends on when you want to arbitrarily say punk began. I know a lot  

> of historians/writers/critics say 1975, which I think is about  

> right, everything else ebing even (which it isn't). There are people  

> who will say Carl Perkins and Johnny Cash were "punk" in 1950s, and  

> the Punk 365 opens with Roky Erickson and the 13th Floor Elevators  

> (Austin, TX) and other '66 garage bands, etc., but this is all  

> because the term "punk" has become so elastic as to be applied to  

> almost anything.

>

> -Oliver

>

> Mik wrote:

>>

>> Guess it all depends on your own personal definition of punk and  

>> how far back you want to go to try to prove a point.

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> *From:* gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net 

>> ] *On Behalf Of *melinda grant

>> *Sent:* 24 January 2008 12:27

>> *To:* A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>> *Subject:* Re: [kj] ot new york hadfirst punks,sorry mik ;)

>>

>>

>> talking of which,saw a great prog on bbc4 last night all about  

>> the"new york punk scene"  feated new york dolls--who have been  

>> going since the early 70s-1972 they started up along with lou  

>> reed,iggy,mc5,alice cooper...these people are responsable for  

>> really starting the roots of punk----it was malcolm mcclaren,who  

>> after having seen the--new york dolls perform at cbgbc in 74--took  

>> the concept back to u.k and got the sex pistols together in 75 ;0

>> /1974/5..debby harry,patti smith,televiosion

>> talking heads,deadboys,were also considered early punk scene as  

>> well in new york,they also hungout and performed regularly at  

>> cbgbs....

>> so who started punk? sorry mick it was  the newyork scene

>> who put a very rough and almost dangerious edge to punk---u.k sex  

>> pistols plus a small handfull of other bands at the time, some of  

>> which sprung out from a group of punks known as"the bromly  

>> contingent" the rest hung out with them and the pistols--they  

>> generally performed(when they could) at 100 club/marquee/screen on  

>> the green/dingwalls/the nastvill--all hung out at"sex"(later known  

>> as--saditionarys!) mcmlarens/viv westwood alternative clothes  

>> shop,along worldend part of the kings road--london!!

>> milinda ps lesson over;D))),now hand in your papers for me to mark ;P

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> From: mik at corvids.eclipse.co.uk

>> To: gathering at misera.net

>> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 01:18:59 +0000

>> Subject: Re: [kj] ot vibrators!!

>>

>>

>> > Ah UK Punk....gotta love it.

>>

>>

>> Come on Alex, after all the arguments we have had over the years? Lol

>>

>>

>> Mik

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> *From:* gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net 

>> ] *On Behalf Of *Alexander Smith

>> *Sent:* 24 January 2008 01:01

>> *To:* A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>> *Subject:* Re: [kj] ot vibrators!!

>>

>>

>>

>> Alex in NYC's Favorite Vibrators songs in no particular order:

>>

>>

>> 1) "Dragnet" (off the PUNK & DISORDERLY compilation)

>>

>> 2) "Into the Future" (first track off PURE MANIA)

>>

>> 3) "Troops of Tomorrow" -- for birthing his second-fave track by  

>> the Exploited (the first being "Daily News").

>>

>>

>> Ah UK Punk....gotta love it.

>>

>>

>> Alex in NYC

>>

>>

>>

>> On Jan 23, 2008, at 7:32 PM, folk devil wrote:

>>

>>

>> Troops of tomorrow ;)

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> From: hollytree1961 at hotmail.com <mailto:hollytree1961 at hotmail.com>

>> To: gathering at misera.net <mailto:gathering at misera.net>

>> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:00:47 +0000

>> Subject: Re: [kj] ot vibrators!!

>>

>> thought that would get yours attention ;D))))

>> the vibrators were an ok band,i exspecially like the track"the  

>> youth of tomorrow" it had the most amaizing build up--starting very  

>> quietly then building into a crescendo of throbbing bass/drums and  

>> drony voices-7um,really like it--dont have it any longer,perhaps  

>> some kind folk can upload it to the list,so everyone can hear this  

>> semi-marval of pinks bygone days ;D!!!

>> milinda

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:26:47 -0800

>> From: joker at Z6.com <mailto:joker at Z6.com>

>> To: gathering at misera.net <mailto:gathering at misera.net>

>> Subject: Re: [kj] is: Stranglers was: You Tube!

>>

>> The very same!

>>

>>

>>

>> www.iamscuzzy.com <http://www.iamscuzzy.com/> www.myspace.com/scuzzywear 

>>  <http://www.myspace.com/scuzzywear>

>>

>> --- folkdevil_23 at hotmail.com <mailto:folkdevil_23 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> From: folk devil <folkdevil_23 at hotmail.com <mailto:folkdevil_23 at hotmail.com 

>> >>

>> To: <gathering at misera.net <mailto:gathering at misera.net>>

>> Subject: Re: [kj] is: Stranglers was: You Tube!

>> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:04:16 -0800

>>

>> Is that the same Ellis that was in the vibrators?

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 01:05:10 -0800

>> From: joker at Z6.com <mailto:joker at Z6.com>

>> To: gathering at misera.net <mailto:gathering at misera.net>

>> Subject: Re: [kj] is: Stranglers was: You Tube!

>>

>> That article was spot on Greg!

>>

>> Summed it up completely, though I must admit to you that I really  

>> liked 10!

>>

>> The thing with Stanglers post Cornwell was that John Ellis just did  

>> not work as a guitarist and it was rather evident that JJ was going  

>> with the flow for a lot of it. Ellis' guitar was very bluse based  

>> and rather staid.

>>

>>

>

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