[kj] Sex Pistols singer faces race attack claims

[ade]

That's good, but not everyone is so able to make up their own minds/use their own judgement. Imagine trying to get a job at one of those Labour-run councils where they only want you if you're a 'minority'."Oh, this guy's been too successful, let's give this opportunity' to someone more 'needy/vulnerable/add more offensive patronising words here' "...

-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Mik Raven
Sent: 23 July 2008 16:47
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] Sex Pistols singer faces race attack claims



Personally, I have always looked for experience in job applicants over qualifications. It's not difficult to do well at education. It's somewhat harder to apply yourself in the real world and make a success of it.

 


  _____  


From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of ade
Sent: 23 July 2008 16:40
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] Sex Pistols singer faces race attack claims

 

<<I would take notice (as an employer) of someone with a poxy degree from Northampton former Poly now Uni over someone with nothing at all - don't you think that studying for 3 years shows some sort of ambition/application?>>

 

The main JIZZt of this argument is school-based education. And no, I don't think education for all is the success that it was hoped to be. You, I or the govt. can't force the masses to do something they don't want to do... in normal circumstances.

 

Neither is this about being against education, hardly, but the fact that they're massaging the figures to make it look like it's working, whereas it's onlyworking for the people who take it seriously. Of course, council estates are full of burgeoning doctors, neurosurgeons, etc & I'm totally wrong ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Rob Horan
Sent: 23 July 2008 16:30
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] Sex Pistols singer faces race attack claims


> what's wrong with that??


 

Well, it devalues educational results, which in turn makes it difficult for employers to judge who actually has the abilities they need, to the point where they begin to take no notice of so-called qualifications.

 

<<I would take notice (as an employer) of someone with a poxy degree from Northampton former Poly now Uni over someone with nothing at all - don't you think that studying for 3 years shows some sort of ambition/application?>>

 


> employ them, you'll soon see..........   


 

That's a lot of time-wasting though, isn't it? Having to employ them to find if they're any use, then getting rid of them, then getting someone else, ad infinitum. A few more steps *at least* than would normally be required. I'm sure your time is more valuable than that? 

 

<< sorry, you've taken me literally...I meant go through the process ie. elaborate interviewing - employers need to be cleverer at this these days, we are..>>

 

This isn't about elitism, I only have a state school/college education myself, but what's the point of ruining something to appear to have done something, only for everyone to find out later that things are actually worse, rather than better? 

 

<< I haven't heard an argument yet that doesn't smack of elitism...btw. are things worse? I've employed sales and technical bods since 96 and the scope appears to be miles better.>>  

 

As for the 65% who you reckon have no aspiration to further their education, well, erm, maybe they don't want to? I certainly remember the majority of kids from school NOT going onto further education because "Why the fuck would I want to do that?!!", etc. Whereas because I wanted to do IT, I *had* to go for further education anyway, not many ways 'round that, unless I had money for industrial certification. 

 

<<so why is it now that it's so much easier to get to uni, that there's so many more students? they aren't all middle class with daddy's money getting them through, most appear to have huge debts when they graduate. re the "Why the fuck would I want to do that?!!" what are they doing now? you reckon that attitude got them (in general) where they wanted to go? God, now I'm sounding elitist - am just saying that there's nowt wrong with educating yourself, you obviously believe that...>> 

 

Shit man, it couldn't actually be as simple as that could it? Or maybe it's that their parents told them to get down the factory once school finished? When my cousin left school & wanted to go to college to become a Nursery Nurse & her dad told her to just get down the factory - did that not happen? Or when my next door neighbour left school & wanted to do the same as my cousin & (there's a pattern forming here..) her dad told her to stop messing about & get down the nearest factory, that didn't happen either? 

 

<<bet it doesn't happen as much these days (not that many factories left haha) because there's so much more to do if you study, no?>> 

 

Education for all... was the dream... but it was only an idealistic dream that the masses weren't interested in. 

 

<<they are interested, I bet the figures back me up>> 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://four.pairlist.net/pipermail/gathering/attachments/20080723/71f0638e/attachment.html>