[kj] [KJ] OT: Afghantsi on UK channel More4 now...

[Karen Weil]

OK, dude. I don't mind being challenged. 

k.w.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ade 
  To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 12:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [kj] [KJ] OT: Afghantsi on UK channel More4 now...


  People don't really get flamed on this list, but they *do* get challenged.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Karen Weil
    Sent: 18 June 2008 19:58
    To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
    Subject: Re: [kj] [KJ] OT: Afghantsi on UK channel More4 now...


    No, you did not. I was simply stating my opinion (as I really didn't care to get flamed). 
    Again, I understand your point. No harm, no foul. 

    Have a good day. 

    k.w.
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: ade 
      To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) 
      Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:38 AM
      Subject: Re: [kj] [KJ] OT: Afghantsi on UK channel More4 now...


      > For the record, let me clearly state that I firmly believe that -- in spite of the U.S. bungling of foreign policy and unscrupulous motives -- 3,000-plus Americans did NOT deserve to lose their lives seven years ago, any more than innocent civilians in Iraq or Afghanistan do for the evil deeds done by their governments.) 


      Wow - did I say that?
        -----Original Message-----
        From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Karen Weil
        Sent: 18 June 2008 19:33
        To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
        Subject: Re: [kj] [KJ] OT: Afghantsi on UK channel More4 now...


        Ade:

        With all due respect, the percentage who "are all for kicking Middle Eastern ass" is much smaller than you would believe, probably just 20 percent. (And these are the same delusional folks who will stand by our Corrupter-in-Chief, because they are blind, selfish ideologues.) 
        A good chunk of Americans have woken up, but unfortunately, there's not a clear consensus on how to get out of Iraq now. And that's what's keeping our soldiers there. (Of course, a little dose of fear and questioning people's patriotism, courtesy of Bush's enablers in the corporate-owned media, doesn't hurt, either.)
        While the United States has been playing a dangerous game in that region for many years, I don't agree with you that many people don't think we've done "nothing" to deserve the attacks. 
        There are many of us who understand what our reckless foreign policy has wrought, but terrorist violence will never, ever solve a damn thing. 
        For the record, let me clearly state that I firmly believe that -- in spite of the U.S. bungling of foreign policy and unscrupulous motives -- 3,000-plus Americans did NOT deserve to lose their lives seven years ago, any more than innocent civilians in Iraq or Afghanistan do for the evil deeds done by their governments.)
        Thanks for letting me explain.

        Best,

        k.w.
        San Diego 
          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: ade 
          To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) 
          Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:51 AM
          Subject: Re: [kj] [KJ] OT: Afghantsi on UK channel More4 now...


          You know, I think many people in the States are all for kicking Middle Eastern ass, because as
          far as they're concerned, they've done nothing to deserve attacks such as 9/11. Successive
          administrations have fucked with the M.E. so much, that the whole place is finally fighting back.

          The people who have been let down here are the public who frankly haven't a clue what's been going
          on in their name, have been attacked & are now on the defensive.

          Thoughts?
            -----Original Message-----
            From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Karen Weil
            Sent: 18 June 2008 18:43
            To: saulomar1 at yahoo.com; A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
            Subject: Re: [kj] [KJ] OT: Afghantsi on UK channel More4 now...


            Sade1: 

            Appreciate and understand your passionate response. My statement about well-meaning is it seemed like that at the time. It doesn't mean it was. This country has opened such a Pandora's Box in the Mid East, and now its reaping the consequences. And sadly, there is a segment in the U.S. that still doesn't get it and unfortunately, they vote en masse and as a bloc, while most Americans stay home on election day -- and that's why we've had the disgrace we've had for the last 7 years. But you probably don't need me to tell you that.
            (Also, Saddam invaded Kuwait because we essentially told him he could, in April of '90.) 
            Off my soap box now.

            Keep the faith,

            k.w.
              ----- Original Message ----- 
              From: sade1 
              To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) 
              Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:24 PM
              Subject: Re: [kj] [KJ] OT: Afghantsi on UK channel More4 now...


                       I dont think U.S. policy was at all well meaning, and as for misguided, 

                    i thiink the U.S. stayed on-message the whole time.

                       From what i've read..

                     - the U.S. covertly supported the election of the last 

                       pre-Soviet president of Afghanistan because U.S. knew it would 

                     - provoke the Russians to invade and 

                     - with Ozzie bin Ladin and the proto-Taliban the U.S. would give the Russians 

                                                                                                "your own Viet Nam.....!"
                      Pretty filthy and underhanded. 



                      It's (somewhat) like a local land developer fomenting the wife to cheat on her 

                    husband and the husband to cheat with the au pair while helpting the kids grow 

                    a poppy field in the garden to keep 'em stoned -  just so the land developer can 

                    run off with the house/land during the final divorce proceedings. 



                    Ingenious!



                    ... ... ... ... ... ... 
                    (looking at the current state of things)

                    'Save me..                                                
                     save me from Tomorrow..                          
                     I don't want to sail in this Ship Of Fools...!'   


                    --- On Tue, 6/17/08, Karen Weil <karen.weil at sddt.com> wrote:

                      From: Karen Weil <karen.weil at sddt.com>
                      Subject: Re: [kj] [KJ] OT: Afghantsi on UK channel More4 now...
                      To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" <gathering at misera.net>
                      Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 6:40 PM


                      And little did we know ...
                      Yet another example of what seemed like at the time as well-meaning (but ultimately very misguided) foreign policy.


                      ciao,

                      k.w.
                        ----- Original Message ----- 
                        From: Brendan Quinn 
                        To: 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)' 
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:23 PM
                        Subject: Re: [kj] [KJ] OT: Afghantsi on UK channel More4 now...


                        And the US supported the Taliban at the time as a proxy to fight the Russians, “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”




--------------------------------------------------------

                        From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of ade
                        Sent: Wednesday, 18 June 2008 9:37 a.m.
                        To: gathering at misera.net
                        Subject: [kj] [KJ] OT: Afghantsi on UK channel More4 now...
                        Importance: High



                        On MORE4 right now, Afghantsi, a documentary about the soviets in Afghanistan . 
                        Filmed during the occupation, from the Soviet POV, literally, not propaganda. 

                        The squadies thought it wouldn't be that difficult... 



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