[kj] oliver / fox election spin

[GREG SLAWSON]

My party (progressive labor party) defines socialism as 2 types:
What occured in the USSR and China until a few decades ago (and then turned into state-controlled capitalism
and now free-market capitalism); there is also "Euro-socialism" which is a mixture of free-market state control of some areas like health care, as in countries like France, Sweeden, and even Israel, etc. Idiot Americans are too stupid to realize that we even have some of the latter--for example, schools are mostly socialized in the US; the post office is completely so.
We define communism as:
An economic/social/political system which has NEVER existed in ANY country, developed (but not completely understood) by Marx, where the laboring class (including "professionals") control all production, where all commodities/services are produced for use, not sale, and where distribution is done based on need, not ability to pay, and where no material/social privelege is allowed, and where decisions are reached by full and voluntary discussion/participation and then collective consensus (not voting, the lowest and least participatory form of participation). 



From: folkdevil_23 at hotmail.comTo: gathering at misera.netDate: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:10:42 -0800Subject: Re: [kj] oliver / fox election spin

A considerable amount of Americans believe Socialism is Communism :/"> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:06:18 -0600> From: bigblackhair at sbcglobal.net> To: gathering at misera.net> Subject: Re: [kj] oliver / fox election spin> > You're asking me?> > For the same reason you had a solid chunk of the GOP base stubbornly > believing Obama was a "SOCIALIST!" because he merely wanted to go back > to the Clinton tax rates. "Socialism" is such a bad smear word in the > US, a frightful bogeyman, and in popular discourse it's lost any real > meaning. It technically means "government (or public) ownership of the > means of production." But to like maybe 1/4 of the US population it just > means "taxes I don't like to pay," which is stupid.> > This 1 hour program, _Frontline: Sick Around the World_, is the best > comparison I have seen between the health care systems of the US, > England, Germany, Taiwan, Japan, and Switzerland. It shws how other > countries can do it and the US cannot. (Better than "Sicko.") The makers > of the documentary went out of their way to contrast the US to > _capitalist democracies_:> > > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/> > > And, yes, 14% of our GDP goes to heathcare, compared to the average of > 8% of countries in the West who have universal health care, and we get > far worse outcomes, including almost 50 million lacking health care. > Japan spends 7% of its GDP and has the lngest lifespan, lower infant > mortality, and everyone is covered somehow.> > It makes no sense. But the private insurance lobby in the US would not > have it any other way.> > -Oliver> > > > Brendan wrote:> > So what exactly is up with your healthcare system, why do you pay so much> > over there and still get so little for your dollar?> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________> Gathering mailing list> Gathering at misera.net> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering



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