[kj] OT: New scientifical evidenc of Life on Mars

[sade1]

   Pretty good, there (is that what Soundgarden teaches you?). A lot of people don't 
address the skepticism as good as you did, so, that made for good reading.


... ... ... ... ... ... 

[looking at the current state of things..]
 
'Save me...
  save me from Tomorrow..
    I don't want to sail in this Ship Of Fools...'   





________________________________
From: Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz>
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 10:35:42 AM
Subject: Re: [kj] OT: New scientifical evidenc of Life on Mars


Yeah but scientific knowledge is derived from more than experiences on our planet, because we have probes in space sending back information, and we receive radiation from other parts of the universe that tells us something about it…in satellite receivers on earth and more accurate ones in space. We pick up light radiation, x rays, gamma rays etc. We can use that to understand the size and trajectories of various bodies, their age, composition, interaction with other bodies, what’s likely to happen to them etc. And at the end of the day, we’re part of the universe…we’re not separate from it in any way. I think there’s a false dichotomy going on, or a false separation. I’m not saying this info is particularly solid, and not challenged, but I can’t see why being located in one part of the universe would make you think you can’t understand how another part of it that’s right nextdoor works. As I said, if there’s such a thing as black
 holes then that’s something completely new to us (probably), and we have no experience with event horizons…so that’s a ‘new’ form of physics, if it exists. (Unless it turns out that we made accurate predictions about a) the existence of black holes and b) how they work, in which case we extrapolated from our existing knowledge of physics, and in effect we haven’t altered our understanding of the laws at all, they are consistent with how we expected them to behave, under different conditions…) 
 
But Mars…why ‘on earth’ assume there’s anything so different about it that it’s a deal changer to the laws of physics? I don’t think it’s unscientific to make best guesses based on what we already know…esp when it’s proven right so far in terms of what we’ve found there (and how we got there).
 
We got to Mars based on an understanding of its trajectory (laws of physics), we understand how strong its gravity is (physics), that it doesn’t have an electromagnetic field like earth does (physics), so it’s not protected from radiation, making it less likely that life as we know it could survive (physics / biology / geology etc). I mean, I can understand the argument that it has different physical properties, but different laws of physics? To me that’s like saying you can’t understand one part of a sandpit because you’ve only studied another part of it. Perhaps you wouldn’t have an understanding of how water effects sand because the part you studied isn’t wet and the other is…but that’s still really just adding to your information, not changing it. That’s what different laws of physics means to me.
 

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From:gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of Jim Harper
Sent: Friday, 28 November 2008 22:39
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] OT: New scientifical evidenc of Life on Mars
 
Not wishing to sound arsey here, but I can't much reason *not* to believe that Mars has any different rules of physics. The bulk of our scientific knowledge is based solely on information gleaned on our planet. I think it would be unwise- not to mention somewhat unscientific- to assume that information can be used to accurately predict what conditions are like on other planets...

--- On Fri, 28/11/08, Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz> wrote:
From: Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [kj] OT: New scientifical evidenc of Life on Mars
To: "' A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)'" <gathering at misera.net>
Date: Friday, 28 November, 2008, 4:36 AM
I don’t think there’s any reason to believe that Mars has any different rules of physics than earth…not in terms of our knowledge of its elements (insofar as what we know about the elements, which is admittedly incomplete at the quantum level, but we do know broadly how they work at the macro level), and the energy forces that act on it (the electromagnetic radiation it’s subject to, the gravity it exerts and that is exerted upon it, and the nuclear forces that hold its atoms together…).
 
We can predict it’s trajectory through space with a high degree of accuracy within x thousands / millions of years, based on our understanding of the effects (not cause) of gravity…
 
And to me it seems logical to look for life on other planets based on looking for artificial structures, whether they look like human faces or not is irrelevant. I’m not defending the guy’s methods or findings at all, just saying that I think science is the best bet we have for finding evidence of life on mars, and I don’t think there’s much bias involved in using the scientific method as our main tool. Nor any reason to expect that the rules of physics are any different anywhere else in the universe…we just don’t have a proper grasp of them yet (understatement).
 
Science is a self-correcting mechanism for seeing the world as accurately as possible.
 

________________________________

From:gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of sade1
Sent: Friday, 28 November 2008 06:08
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] OT: New scientifical evidenc of Life on Mars
 
  It seems a little too much projection of ourselves into deep space.  I'm skeptical how 
a totally different paradigm from our own world here on earth can so neatly be explained 
so early on by only our own scientifical principles and experiences, and without even knowing 
more of Mars' possibly bizarrely different physics (and biology) rules and principles.
 
That said, i'm staying tuned for more.
 
... ... ... ... ... ... 

[looking at the current state of things..]
 
'Save me...
  save me from Tomorrow..
    I don't want to sail in this Ship Of Fools...'   
 
 
 

________________________________

From:Brendan <bq at soundgardener.co.nz>
To: gathering at misera.net
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 12:47:58 AM
Subject: [kj] OT: New scientifical evidenc of Life on Mars

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/820/LIFE_ON_MARS___New_Scientific_Evidence/



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