[kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?

[Bette Dillinger]

I would venture to say that you would have to ask the band in question, not little ol' me. 

  


 


From: kjlist at live.com
To: gathering at misera.net
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:52:42 -0500
Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?



"When you label me, you negate me." I get it, Wayne.
 
So, in all sincerity, what band actually IS goth, then?
 


From: bettedillinger at live.com
To: gathering at misera.net
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:50:09 -0400
Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?



Then most bands are "Goth".  The Doors must have been the Grandfathers...whoa, "The End" man....
 
Seriously, I never understand this shite.  If "Bela" is not the most tongue firmly placed in cheek song I have ever heard, I don't know what is, yet it is considered one of the cornerstones of this movement.  I have never thought it depressing or "introspective".  I thought of four wacky boys who had watched alot of Hammer horror films doing a satire of Bela Lugosi.  
 
As for Killing Joke, the only person who ever really fought with me about them being Goth insisted it was because of the song "Sun Goes Down".  "Hey, Bette, there is that line about a freaking vampire!  You don't know Goth beeeotch!"  WTF?  Hey, but this was also someone who was mad at me for wearing dark brown to a Bauhaus concert.  I mean *seriously* pissed.
 
When you concretize music like Bauhaus, KJ et al, you gotta dumb it down.  I will always love Bauhaus for being like Bowie and exposing me to new people as a kid, like Antonin Artaud.  Now I know why so many detest NME. Jaysus.
 
 


From: kjlist at live.com
To: vassifer at earthlink.net; gathering at misera.net
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:32:07 -0500
Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?



Don't be so pedantic; it's all in good fun.
 
"LLB" is a goth tune because:
1. It contains all the widely accepted hallmarks of "goth" music, i.e. minor keys, dark, keyboard-driven, "high-pitched basslines", "tribal beats", "foreboding, sorrowful, epic soundscapes" (wikipediia)
2.Thematically, it deals with the juxtaposition of love and death using "depressing" and "introspective" lyrics; it speaks of struggle, anguish and loss. These are all goth memes.
3. It is widely acknowledged as a goth tune by actual goths, such as they are. Check the playlist of any goth club night or radio show. While it's presence on any one of them does not confirm the song's "gothiness", it's presence on ALL of them surely does.
 
Reductive arguments and relativist fallacies aside, I think the song is goth; you don't.
 
In a nutshell: "If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, there's a pretty good chance it's a duck."
 


Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:09:27 -0400
From: vassifer at earthlink.net
To: gathering at misera.net; gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?




"There is no doubt that 'LLB' is a goth tune."

That the band wrote a tune that Goths like doesn't render the band themselves Goths. Goths like "Paint It Black" by the Stones -- does that make THEM goths?
Alex in NYC
 
 

 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Rheinhold Squeegee 
Sent: Mar 12, 2009 2:54 PM 
To: vassifer at earthlink.net, Gathering Gathering 
Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks? 



In Mick Mercer's "Goth Bible" he identifies the original cornerstones of Goth as Bauhaus, Theatre of Hate and Killing Joke. He then quickly notes that KJ then moved in an entirely new direction and tried valiantly to distance themselves from that what they had wrought. But maybe Mercer's an idiot who doesn't know anything.
 
There is no doubt that "LLB" is a goth tune. Funny thing is, I've been to many a "Goth"-themed club night in my day, and "LLB" is literally the only KJ song that they'll ever play, at least in the Midwestern backwaters I have haunted. I think the general consensus would be that Killing Joke were originators of a certain philosophical "vibe" that turned quickly to simple fashion and was then appropriated by fat girls in fishnets and too much eye makeup. The ideological link is there; the musical link, however, is brief and tenuous.
 


Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:35:06 -0400
From: vassifer at earthlink.net
To: gathering at misera.net; gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?



The Horrors aren't bad, actually. They're possibly the *LEAST ORIGINAL BAND EVER*, but their music isn't awful.
Killing Joke, meanwhile, were not -- are not -- and never will be -- a goth band. Neither is/was Joy Division.
Alex in NYC




-----Original Message----- 
From: countessghoulita at aol.com 
Sent: Mar 12, 2009 2:09 PM 
To: gathering at misera.net 
Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks? 




The Horrors? Who the heck are they? I did not know that the Jonas Brothers would put on some mascara and play their douche "goth" version (not before using their parents' credit card at Hot Topic).

And what about all these new bands? Again Marilyn Manson? NME is totally ignoring Rozz Williams. If NME quotes the Misfits, they should have quoted Christian Death for sake of information (aka Deathrock).

As far as Killing Joke is concerned, there are other songs that may represent what goth philosophy may be:  "Primitive", "Darkness Before Dawn" (Melinda, you nailed it :) ), "Exorcism"...

Sorry, the old geezer in me is speaking out...

-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Weil <karen.weil at sddt.com>
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:19 am
Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?





Agree with Milinda, but "Love" is truly a great tune, goth or otherwise. Now, I have to check out this list! 
 
k.w.
The States

----- Original Message ----- 
From: melinda grant 
To: thegathering mailing list 
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?

nice one ;) darkness befor the dawn should of been in the also!
 
milindafgrant
 


From: circusbar at uol.com.br
To: gathering at misera.net
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:23:21 -0300
Subject: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?




http://www.nme.com/photos/727/3/the-20-greatest-goth-tracks
 
They put LOVE LIKE BLOOD into the 20 greatest goth tracks ever
 
d ia z


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