[kj] KJ in China?

[Jim Harper]

I only limited my comments to China because the discussion at hand was China.
 
Anyway, no, I don't think I can say the same about the UK/USA/Australian governments. I'm a hell of a lot better off where I am than my counterpart would be in China. Does everyone have skeletons in the closet? Yep. Is everyone equally bad? Nope. You want to complain about the UK government? Fine, go do it. No-one'll stop you. And that's substantially better than having a tank run over you. Think yourself lucky you're able to debate the relative merits of the Chinese government, 'cos the Chinese sure as hell can't.
 
This isn't an excuse for Guantanamo Bay or western human rights violation, just for the record!
 
Jim. 

--- On Tue, 20/7/10, Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com> wrote:


From: Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com>
Subject: Re: [kj] KJ in China?
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" <gathering at misera.net>
Date: Tuesday, 20 July, 2010, 23:39



Ooops!


And you could say the same of the UK USA Australian govts too ( feel free to add to the lists). 


All regimes elected or otherwise, corrupt themselves the very moment they get into office. 


Want to talk about Human Rights? Why the fuck is Guantanamo bay still open? Why is there a warehouse full
of people who want asylum less than 10 miles from my house?
Why are so called civilized nations still putting people to death for their crimes?
Why did the UK govt lie and lie and lie about Iraq and the economy. 




Our problem in the west is that we can't accept failure or criticism. 


Why do people have such a downer on China? Without it We are all fucked! 


Sure China ain't perfect but it's a whole lot better than it was. It's moving forwards whilst I sometimes think we are running backwards. 


By the way, my name translated into Chinese and then back again comes out as Raspberry Hair mousse. 
Those that know me will see the irony!!







On 20 Jul 2010, at 23:14, Jim Harper <jimharper666 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:









The pre-80s era was also characterized by massive human rights violations, insane and counterproductive business practices and corruption on a immense scale.
 
(To be fair, they've partially managed to sort out the business practices issue).

Oh, and let's not forget the Chinese government's fondness for lying through their teeth about their 'successes'.
 
Jim. 

--- On Tue, 20/7/10, GREG SLAWSON <gregslawson at msn.com> wrote:




Examples of pre-1980s practices: eliminating many diseases and widespread opium addiction (and rehab and social integration of addicts, rather
than jail as in the US), and spreading literacy to most of the population (creating a phonetic alphabet helped).
Some interesting books by Westerners who lived in China during the sort-of communist period:
"Away With All Pests" by a doctor who witnessed the health care movement; "Fanshen", by William Hinton, an agriculture specialist
who lived in a red-controlled village and was fluent in Chinese. It talks about many things, including how party leaders could be recalled by popular vote
in the village (and anyone could vote regardless of party membership). There's another book (forgot the name) by a British industrial expert who
witnessed the worker-run tractor factories. He describes how everything from work hours to child care was decided by the workers, in what 
seemed like chaos compared to our regimented work lives in the West, and that he saw them produce more than any European factory ever did.
 


From: karen.weil at sddt.com
To: gathering at misera.net
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 13:49:09 -0700
Subject: Re: [kj] KJ in China?



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In the purest sense? No. But certainly, they carried out more of the practices that define a communist gov't -- until some free-market ideals were introduced in the early 80s.
Doesn't matter, now -- the regime there is still miserable. 
 
K.W. 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: folk devil 
To: gathering at misera.net 
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [kj] KJ in China?

was it ever? 
 

 


From: karen.weil at sddt.com
To: gathering at misera.net
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:54:04 -0700
Subject: Re: [kj] KJ in China?



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Totally agree with Greg on this. China's gov't. is hardly communist anymore. 


The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy. 



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