[kj] Makes you proud to be British !

[GREG SLAWSON]

Good points again.

Another aspect is that many leftists in recent decades have adopted the idea of "progressive nationalism"--e.g., black nationalist groups in the US (Nation of Islam is one) that react to 

racism; nationalist revolutions agains foreign intervention in many countries in Africa, Asia, Latin America, etc. Unfortunately none of these movements have led to lasting or substantial change for the better

for the oppressed groups. That's why I'm glad I know communists (in the Progressive Labor Party) who have rejected even this "progressive" nationalism for the past 40 years,

and are organizing people across borders. Pretty cool!
 



From: folk.devil at hotmail.com
To: gathering at misera.net
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 18:37:49 -0800
Subject: Re: [kj] Makes you proud to be British !





Most forms of Nationalism are conceptually hierarchical, making it innately exclusionary.
There is often blurring between Cultural Identity and National Identity, the latter is prone to being socially exclusionary. "There Ain't No Black in the Union Jack".
"Proud to be British" is quite an odd banner too, considering the values attached to British Nationalism are in fact based in Englishness, with a lesser Scot, Welshman or Irishman; the 3 Cultures that are the more Historically British.
Religion = The Greatest Story Ever Told
Nationalism = The Greatest Story Ever Sold.




To: gathering at misera.net
From: jpwhkj at aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 11:02:38 -0500
Subject: Re: [kj] Makes you proud to be British !


Sorry - I didn't mean "natural" as in "innate", but rather that it was comfortable or easy.
 
I'm not saying that any given form of prejudice is innate.  (I'd actually say that each form is against our better nature.)  But it does seem - historically - that people find it comfortable to be lazy in their assumptions about others, and to blame others for their own problems.  And it's a tendency that political and religious leaders have exploited down the centuries.
 
Scientifically... nurture... nature... who knows?  Not me.
 
Jamie



 
-----Original Message-----
From: GREG SLAWSON <gregslawson at msn.com>
To: gathering <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 15:09
Subject: Re: [kj] Makes you proud to be British !





Where is the evidence that people are "naturally" prejudiced? I don't think science or history would back that up. 
Even in conquest-based societies like Roman Empire, racism was not a factor in areas (north Africa, mid East) that were
taken over. And racism against blacks had to be taught and violently enforced (laws against blacks and whites intermarrying
and even associating) in the early US.
As for science, I doubt there is any evidence for innate forms of prejudice.
 



To: gathering at misera.net
From: jpwhkj at aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 09:10:39 -0500
Subject: Re: [kj] Makes you proud to be British !


Do you think?  I see it as the other way around, that people are naturally prejudiced (or find it easy & comfortable to be prejudiced), and this finds its outlet in a variety of ways, of which nationalism is one, religious prejudice is another, class-based snobbery another, racism another, and so on.
 
Even more depressing is how successfully this can be rationalised.  "I'm not racist, but my experience of pikies is that they are thieving scum."  "I'm all in favour of religious freedom but Islam is an evil religion."
 
None of which is to say that we should live in a judgement-free world.  I'm all in favour of people having strong opinions and being allowed to say them.  For example, if you really believe Islam is an evil religion, that's fine... it's just that it's usually code for "I wish these darkies would go home".
 
Jamie
 



 
-----Original Message-----
From: folk devil <folk.devil at hotmail.com>
To: gathering <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 2:30
Subject: Re: [kj] Makes you proud to be British !





Good old Nationalism. The root of all prejudice.




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