[kj] Down By The River

[andrew scott]

Not too many comments on the tracklisting for Down By The River but feel I need to intervene.  My thanks for those days now of the mid & late nineties.  At the time I felt severely bereft through the dissapearance of the Joke & would search out record stores & later the Net for anything rare or that I had missed (finding Alchemy & BBC live this way) & would highly savour releases like No Way Out....  But now it seems as though we are headed towards Fall territory, or worse.  One live release after the other or rather each performance being made available with little variation in the set so that the formerly legendary numbers become dulled by repetition.  No regrets about not being at Camden or RFH especially after the amazing Fleece gig last year highlighted the air hangarness of the Apollo.  Just my opinion of course.  Just hope that I will feel suitably refreshed by next March although not placing a bet on LP being out by then.  Gonna
 listen to This World Hell tonite & hoping that I do not have to call up Hell to relieve the boredom.  Over & out.  I won't be pledging by the way.


The Fungus Moth.
 
Challenging the Future.

From: "gathering-request at misera.net" <gathering-request at misera.net>
To: gathering at misera.net
Sent: Thursday, 22 September 2011, 22:05
Subject: Gathering Digest, Vol 98, Issue 50

Send Gathering mailing list submissions to
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The Gathering - Digest

Today's Topics:

  1.  2012 March tour apparently now kicking off in Dublin:
      (Rheinhold Squeegee)
  2. Re: Iron Maiden Cover Killing Joke (folk devil)
  3. Re: Band funding (folk devil)
  4. Re: Band funding (jon chapman)
  5. Re: Never a new topic OTG (Agni Deva)
  6. Re: Never a new topic OTG (Rob Moss)
  7. Re: Never a new topic OTG (Alex Smith)
  8. Re: Never a new topic OTG (Rob Moss)
  9. Re: Band funding (Neil Perry)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:16:45 +0100
From: Rheinhold Squeegee <kjlist at live.com>
Subject: [kj]  2012 March tour apparently now kicking off in Dublin:
To: Gathering Gathering <gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID: <snt0-eas56D78D1368D83011830243FE0C0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:50:17 -0700
From: folk devil <folk.devil at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [kj] Iron Maiden Cover Killing Joke
To: <gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID: <BAY152-W535D2375764E67D50806269D0C0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QER_yqTcmjM




> From: fatpotanga at gmail.com

> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:39:31 +0100

> To: gathering at misera.net

> Subject: Re: [kj] Iron Maiden Cover Killing Joke

> 

> "brighter than" was a title of a book about atomic scientists [quick google] Robert Jungk

> 

> Oppenheimer quoted the Bagavad Gita "Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds" thogh

> 

> On 21 Sep 2011, at 21:13, Alex Smith wrote:

> 

> > It's about three years old, and it's not a cover.

> > The expression itself -- brighter than a thousand suns -- it should be remembered, is cribbed from Sanskrit, no?

> > Alex in NYC

> > 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> -- 

> YAY SALE!

> http://www.iamscuzzy.com

> 

> _______________________________________________

> Gathering mailing list

> Gathering at misera.net

> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

                        
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:53:46 -0700
From: folk devil <folk.devil at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [kj] Band funding
To: <gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID: <BAY152-W58CDDEB5D1787FE06E8F4B9D0C0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"


He can play it very well on an out of tune piano, pissed out of his head, though..




From: bq at soundgardener.co.nz
To: gathering at misera.net
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:52:14 +1200
Subject: Re: [kj] Band funding







So when he says this to the BBC

?My favourite song is the New Zealand national anthem, in which I take a credit for changing it from English into the native Maori tongue.?

He?s just talking absolute crap. What a dick.




                          
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:29:35 +0000
From: jon chapman <jonniespatula at hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [kj] Band funding
To: <gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID: <DUB109-W87274DA6A9210B8D912F1FF50C0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"


He talks crap sometimes,but he also talks alot of sense,i love him to bits...........but not in a touchy bum feeling kind of way.    
So when he says this to the BBC

?My favourite song is the New Zealand national anthem, in which I take a credit for changing it from English into the native Maori tongue.?

He?s just talking absolute crap. What a dick.




                          

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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:56:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Agni Deva <devacor at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [kj] Never a new topic OTG
To: gathering at misera.net
Message-ID: <8CE4778DD25CD3B-C58-228 at webmail-d128.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed

OTG  songs (well besides maybe one step ahead) all sound serviceable if 
you listen to the 15 second Itune clips or something as such...-- but 
if you listened all the songs the whole album through, well not so much 
(to me at least)

my love of this land I can listen to and feel ok about...

-----Original Message-----
From: ADRIAN WASON <adrianwason at btinternet.com>
To: gathering <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:29 pm
Subject: [kj] Never a new topic OTG

As I have mentioned more than once I would love to see Obsession played
live

Marc,
Spot on brilliant track, another example of an archetypal kj track.

No many people admit to liking Otg
I'll rate it now
America 10
love of this land 10
Stay One Jump 5
Ends of Earth 8
Calling 8
Obsession 9?
Tiuhanco 2
OTG 7

Sick of saying imagine if this was re-recorded.

The only track that you should leave alone is My love of this land as 
thats fine
as it stands
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:35:12 +0100
From: Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com>
Subject: Re: [kj] Never a new topic OTG
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
    <gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID: <EF412EA5-4EAE-4386-8BD0-E9DEA8DE815A at gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

I think it's the production rather than the songs. 
That period was bad for music. 
All sounds like they were trying to make the songs have the audio equivalent of those Dynasty style shoulder pads!

On 22 Sep 2011, at 20:56, Agni Deva <devacor at aol.com> wrote:


> OTG  songs (well besides maybe one step ahead) all sound serviceable if you listen to the 15 second Itune clips or something as such...-- but if you listened all the songs the whole album through, well not so much (to me at least)

> 

> my love of this land I can listen to and feel ok about...

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ADRIAN WASON <adrianwason at btinternet.com>

> To: gathering <gathering at misera.net>

> Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:29 pm

> Subject: [kj] Never a new topic OTG

> 

> As I have mentioned more than once I would love to see Obsession played

> live

> 

> Marc,

> Spot on brilliant track, another example of an archetypal kj track.

> 

> No many people admit to liking Otg

> I'll rate it now

> America 10

> love of this land 10

> Stay One Jump 5

> Ends of Earth 8

> Calling 8

> Obsession 9 

> Tiuhanco 2

> OTG 7

> 

> Sick of saying imagine if this was re-recorded.

> 

> The only track that you should leave alone is My love of this land as thats fine

> as it stands

> _______________________________________________

> Gathering mailing list

> Gathering at misera.net

> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> 

> 

> 

> _______________________________________________

> Gathering mailing list

> Gathering at misera.net

> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:47:45 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Alex Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [kj] Never a new topic OTG
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
    <gathering at misera.net>,     "A list about all things Killing Joke (the
    band!)" <gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID:
    <3907653.1316724466198.JavaMail.root at wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

True, but there was still vital, interesting music being made in that same era -- just not commercially VIABLE music, which KJ (or at least Jaz) seemed intent on making at the time. 

Alex in NYC


-----Original Message-----

>From: Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com>

>Sent: Sep 22, 2011 4:35 PM

>To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" <gathering at misera.net>

>Subject: Re: [kj] Never a new topic OTG

>

>I think it's the production rather than the songs. 

>That period was bad for music. 

>All sounds like they were trying to make the songs have the audio equivalent of those Dynasty style shoulder pads!

>

>On 22 Sep 2011, at 20:56, Agni Deva <devacor at aol.com> wrote:

>

>> OTG  songs (well besides maybe one step ahead) all sound serviceable if you listen to the 15 second Itune clips or something as such...-- but if you listened all the songs the whole album through, well not so much (to me at least)

>> 

>> my love of this land I can listen to and feel ok about...

>> 

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: ADRIAN WASON <adrianwason at btinternet.com>

>> To: gathering <gathering at misera.net>

>> Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:29 pm

>> Subject: [kj] Never a new topic OTG

>> 

>> As I have mentioned more than once I would love to see Obsession played

>> live

>> 

>> Marc,

>> Spot on brilliant track, another example of an archetypal kj track.

>> 

>> No many people admit to liking Otg

>> I'll rate it now

>> America 10

>> love of this land 10

>> Stay One Jump 5

>> Ends of Earth 8

>> Calling 8

>> Obsession 9 

>> Tiuhanco 2

>> OTG 7

>> 

>> Sick of saying imagine if this was re-recorded.

>> 

>> The only track that you should leave alone is My love of this land as thats fine

>> as it stands

>> _______________________________________________

>> Gathering mailing list

>> Gathering at misera.net

>> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> _______________________________________________

>> Gathering mailing list

>> Gathering at misera.net

>> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

>_______________________________________________

>Gathering mailing list

>Gathering at misera.net

>http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:51:01 +0100
From: Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com>
Subject: Re: [kj] Never a new topic OTG
To: Alex Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>,    "A list about all things
    Killing Joke (the band!)" <gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID: <7C4EB62E-A773-461D-8CF9-BB3EFAECA832 at gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

It really is a crime that Geordie was mixed out of that record. 

On 22 Sep 2011, at 21:47, Alex Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:


> True, but there was still vital, interesting music being made in that same era -- just not commercially VIABLE music, which KJ (or at least Jaz) seemed intent on making at the time. 

> 

> Alex in NYC

> 

> 

> -----Original Message-----

>> From: Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com>

>> Sent: Sep 22, 2011 4:35 PM

>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" <gathering at misera.net>

>> Subject: Re: [kj] Never a new topic OTG

>> 

>> I think it's the production rather than the songs. 

>> That period was bad for music. 

>> All sounds like they were trying to make the songs have the audio equivalent of those Dynasty style shoulder pads!

>> 

>> On 22 Sep 2011, at 20:56, Agni Deva <devacor at aol.com> wrote:

>> 

>>> OTG  songs (well besides maybe one step ahead) all sound serviceable if you listen to the 15 second Itune clips or something as such...-- but if you listened all the songs the whole album through, well not so much (to me at least)

>>> 

>>> my love of this land I can listen to and feel ok about...

>>> 

>>> -----Original Message-----

>>> From: ADRIAN WASON <adrianwason at btinternet.com>

>>> To: gathering <gathering at misera.net>

>>> Sent: Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:29 pm

>>> Subject: [kj] Never a new topic OTG

>>> 

>>> As I have mentioned more than once I would love to see Obsession played

>>> live

>>> 

>>> Marc,

>>> Spot on brilliant track, another example of an archetypal kj track.

>>> 

>>> No many people admit to liking Otg

>>> I'll rate it now

>>> America 10

>>> love of this land 10

>>> Stay One Jump 5

>>> Ends of Earth 8

>>> Calling 8

>>> Obsession 9 

>>> Tiuhanco 2

>>> OTG 7

>>> 

>>> Sick of saying imagine if this was re-recorded.

>>> 

>>> The only track that you should leave alone is My love of this land as thats fine

>>> as it stands

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Gathering mailing list

>>> Gathering at misera.net

>>> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Gathering mailing list

>>> Gathering at misera.net

>>> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

>> _______________________________________________

>> Gathering mailing list

>> Gathering at misera.net

>> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> 

> _______________________________________________

> Gathering mailing list

> Gathering at misera.net

> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 23:05:49 +0200
From: Neil Perry <65snoopy at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [kj] Band funding
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
    <gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID:
    <CACBbLc4eH-Paw1Kvba5Sn1Z8uX9406qm5LqBYXW0qHSU9D4Qbw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I've always thought of Jaz as 'big' everything: big heart, big talent,
big mouth and big nose.

n

On 22 September 2011 16:07, Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com> wrote:


> Like most artistic folk.

> Always wary of the critic and always feeling insecure.

>

> These cruel journalists can turn a boy mad! ;-)

>

>

> On 22 Sep 2011, at 12:34, Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:

>

>

> That is a strange thing about Jaz .... he's evidently accomplished many

> things and won myriad accolades, but he always sounds somewhat defensive

> about his achievements and continually brings them up -- as if people need

> to be reminded of his stunning brilliance.

>

>

> Alex in NYC

>

>

> On Sep 22, 2011, at 5:52 AM, Brendan Quinn wrote:

>

> Re Jaz?s involvement, as far as I understand (from internet trawlings), his

> involvement is limited to influencing / persuading Hinewehi Mohi (the singer

> he worked with on the album ?Oceania? which has apparently seen a sequel

> done since) to sing the *pre-existing* Maori verses at some game in the

> 1999 Rugby World Cup. So he didn?t write or change anything, but he

> influenced this artist he worked with to perform it with the Maori verses in

> front of possibly the largest audience ever. Which is still a great story

> IMO, just not if he?s embellishing it.****

> ** **

> This link has what I think is close to the truth, minus the anti-Jaz rant

> (it?s about the 5th post) ? oh and it appears that the Wiki article has

> since been changed cos I can?t find the below quotes in it.****

> ** **

> I might have even sung the Maori version when I was in school, but buggered

> if I know cos I never paid any attention.****

> ** **

> <http://www.electricalaudio.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3501&start=60>

> http://www.electricalaudio.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3501&start=60****

> ** **

> ?From wikipedia: "Coleman has studied and played music from many cultures,

> and is a multi-instrumentalist. He studied Arabic music at the Cairo

> Conservatoire and has a passion for Czech folk music and M?ori music, among

> others. One of his M?ori pieces is the "Second Symphony for M?ori Voice and

> Orchestra".[1] He was involved in adding a verse in the M?ori language to

> the New Zealand national anthem; it was sung by M?ori singer Hinewehi Mohi

> at the 1999 Rugby World Cup match, and after some controversy the verse was

> officially added."

>

> Jaz Coleman helped to rewrite my countries national anthem. Wicked.?****

> ** **

> *No he didn't.

>

> I know some people who had personal dealings with Jaz ? they didn?t enjoy

> the experience. They called him megalomaniac amongst other things. I?ve

> always thought that it was just down to a bad experience maybe, and that he

> might be tough to work with. But re-writing the NZ National anthem! That?s

> crazy talk and makes me think that they were spot on.

>

> The Maori version of the anthem was written in 1878 (or 1879) ? and was

> taught reasonably widely, especially after the Maori Language Act in 1987.

> But it wasn?t used at sporting events. We sung it at school in the early

> 80?s. And it was sung at my university graduation in the 90?s.

>

> Hinewehi Mohi decided to sing the verses in Maori as well as English at the

> world cup in 1999. This may have been at Jazzers encouragement ? but you?d

> have to ask Hinewehi about that. But there wasn?t anything ?new? about this

> apart from its context.

>

> And the debate was around whether it should be ?officially? sung in both

> languages ? not whether this ?new? version should be official, Maori was

> already an official language and the version that was sung had already

> existed for 120 years.

>

> At the time the Language commission decided it would a good idea in terms

> of promoting the learning of Maori to encourage people to learn & sing both.

> And sporting groups were encouraged to have both languages sung especially

> if their events were being televised. There is still no official protocol

> about what version should be sung and where, the is certainly no law (apart

> from the Treaty of Waitangi Act, and the Maori Language Act which both

> predate Jaz from even being in the country) but in most cases people

> choose to sing both language versions because it sounds better and is more

> meaningful for them - nobody is compelled to do it.

>

> So when he says this to the BBC***

> ** **

> ?My favourite song is the New Zealand national anthem, in which I take a

> credit for changing it from English into the native Maori tongue.?****

> ** **

> *He?s just talking absolute crap. What a dick.***

> ** **

> ** **

> ** **

> *From:*  <gathering-bounces at misera.net>gathering-bounces at misera.net [<gathering-bounces at misera.net>

> mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net <gathering-bounces at misera.net>] *On

> Behalf Of *jon chapman

> *Sent:* Thursday, 22 September 2011 8:56 p.m.

> *To:*  <gathering at misera.net>gathering at misera.net

> *Subject:* Re: [kj] Band funding****

> ** **

>

> Interesting thing about the nz national anthem....just how much influence

> did Jaz really have on this ???....i've heard it mentioned (by him) alot.*

> ***

> I pledge not to buy anything from Killing Joke until I get the chance to

> buy a concert ticket for a gig in NZ or Aussie, an official apology for

> buggering up our national anthem, and my own plot of semi-barren land on one

> of the TWO VILLAGES, which I plan to plant with a certain kind of hemp?which

> I?m anticipating will be greatly enhanced in the post-apocalyptic

> radioactive atmosphere of the future.****

>  ****

> Not really into live albums tbh. XXV was cool. Soundgarden Live on I5 was

> cool. Any live Porcupine Tree is great.****

>  ****

> *From:*  <gathering-bounces at misera.net>gathering-bounces at misera.net

> [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] *On Behalf Of *sade1

> *Sent:* Thursday, 22 September 2011 1:29 p.m.

> *To:* A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

> *Subject:* Re: [kj] Band funding****

>  ****

> > ...  a..band who funded it's last album by selling shares. Would you***

> *

> > buy shares in KJ?****

>  ****

> Brendan can set up the IPO with say, oh, 7 million shares/cds, Goldman

> Sachs can underwrite the whole thing and I'll invent the requisite

> hedge-funds n' all the credit-default swaps and all the derivatives. We'll

> clean up huge! Everyone wanna see a bubble? The cd prices will reach

> $419.99/disc and vinyl records $1,643 each, payable in gold! After the cd

> drops, who knows... Killing Joke will be too big to fail, for once!****

> Once the prices peak at about $528disc/$2,137vinyl I'll set up the

> short-sale; we'll clean up again!! We'll become so rich I think we can buy

> the band itself at that point and send them around every day to different

> shareholders' houses and have them play in the living room or in the parlor

> after dinner and cigars.****

>  ****

> Cheers!****

>  ****

>  ****

>  ****

>  ****

>  ****

>

> *From:* Brian Whitehead < <bawhitehead at gmail.com>bawhitehead at gmail.com>

> *To:* Gathering < <gathering at misera.net>gathering at misera.net>

> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 21, 2011 6:16 AM

> *Subject:* [kj] Band funding****

>

> Talking about the Pledge funding thing I came across this about a German

> band who funded it's last album by selling shares.

> Would you buy shares in KJ? Would Jaz see this as ethically wrong?

>

> "The German band Angelica Express financed its last album by selling

> ?shares? to fans.****

> They issued 500 ?shares? at 50 Euros each (which sold out in record time

> and came with a detailed plan of how the money would be spent). With those

> 25,000 Euros, the band financed the recording of their album, the album

> artwork, the manufacture of the actual CDs, and the accompanying promotion.

> ****

> Not only do the people who signed up for the shares get the new album but

> in return they also receive 80% of the earnings."****

> Brian.****

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> Gathering mailing list

> <Gathering at misera.net>Gathering at misera.net

> <http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering>

> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering****

>

> _______________________________________________ Gathering mailing list <Gathering at misera.net>

> Gathering at misera.net <http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering>

> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering****

> _______________________________________________

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> <Gathering at misera.net>Gathering at misera.net

> <http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering>

> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> Gathering mailing list

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> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

>

>

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>

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