[kj] KJ & Spirituality

[sade1]

I mostly agree that Christians make terrible, terrible music - it sucks bad - unless they don't try to make specifically Christian music and just fuckin' play! 
Right now I can only think of 6p None The Richer, and U2 (think Achtung Baby, Zooropa, Unforgettable Fire), some of George Harrison, Bob Marley (X-ian'ish) and Matisyahu (okay he's a jew and singing jewish themes, but still.. "proto-Christian" or sumthin', it kicks ass regardless). 


 

________________________________
 From: Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz>
To: 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)' <gathering at misera.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality
 

Religion offers comfort and consolation when loved ones pass, true. But Christians make terrible, terrible music. 
 
I’d take atheism just for that, if believing in God was a choice…
 
Oh and also you don’t need a beard and lots and lots of cardigans.
 
From:gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of GREG SLAWSON
Sent: Wednesday, 11 July 2012 6:19 p.m.
To: gathering
Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality
 
I don't see it as dreaded, just as accurate as I can make it out to be based on what I know.
Memories of loved ones: things I sense as real.
Visiting them in heaven and having them watch over me: things I can't sense as real. 
I'm comfortable w/things I'm fairly sure of--like the memories that grow w/time.
I'm sure your parents would have been pleased w/your memories of them.
Maybe our thoughts of lost ones are ways to honor them in the present.
 

> From: dominicoc at hotmail.com

> To: gathering at misera.net

> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 21:39:47 -0700

> Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality

> 

> Really? Wow... What a really dreaded outlook to spirituality... Both my 

> parents passed away 17 & 20 years ago. I will always look forward to seeing 

> them someday up in heaven, and I always know they are watching over me. If 

> it weren't for them teaching me how to survive when I was younger, I 

> wouldn't have gotten through the odds...

> 

> 

> 

> "Sorry, there is no life after death. No heaven or hell. If you want to 

> believe it, you've got to prove it.The good news is that memories of 

> deceased loved ones and friends can live on for your lifetime. My dad died 

> over a decade ago and I have memories creep back into my head all the 

> time.Just watched a 2 hour special on "Heaven: What is it? How do you get 

> there?" on US tv. At least they gave a segment to a scientific explanation 

> of people who've had "near death" experiences. THey allclaim to have 

> glimpsed heaven--all with DIFFERENT descriptions of it. A doctor who's 

> studied this for a decade talked about how the dying brain frist shuts down 

> the inhibitory part,and all kinds of meaningful memories, images, ect. flood 

> the brain--thus the images of heaven. Other scientists have found 

> explanations for the bright light effect too. My impression, afterwatching 

> all kinds of brainwashed religious people from all over th world is, that it 

> is a deep, psychological way of coping. Back

> to the scientists--another thinks that there is even a gene that makes one 

> more prone to spirituality. What he chouldn't explain, though, was why 

> certain COUNTRIES that are non-religious don't have the same % of people 

> w/this gene. Is the gene rare in those countries? Religion is a man=made, 

> invented concept w/ no basis in reality. None.

> From: www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk"To: gathering at misera.net

> 

> -----Original Message----- 

> From: gathering-request at misera.net

> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 5:50 AM

> To: gathering at misera.net

> Subject: Gathering Digest, Vol 109, Issue 11

> 

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> 

> The Gathering - Digest

> 

> Today's Topics:

> 

> 1. Re: KJ & Spirituality (GREG SLAWSON)

> 2. KJ & Spirituality (robert best)

> 3. Re: KJ & Spirituality (Rob Moss)

> 4. Re: KJ & Spirituality (Rob Moss)

> 5. Re: KJ & Spirituality (adrianwason at btinternet.com)

> 6. Re: KJ & Spirituality (bongo)

> 7. Re: Funeral pyre (F Luke)

> 

> 

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> 

> Message: 1

> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 02:40:18 -0400

> From: GREG SLAWSON <gregslawson at msn.com>

> Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality

> To: gathering <gathering at misera.net>

> Message-ID: <SNT109-W45C6BCA869E03D997DF71CA9ED0 at phx.gbl>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> 

> 

> Sorry, there is no life after death. No heaven or hell. If you want to 

> believe it, you've got to prove it.The good news is that memories of 

> deceased loved ones and friends can live on for your lifetime. My dad died 

> over a decade ago and I have memories creep back into my head all the 

> time.Just watched a 2 hour special on "Heaven: What is it? How do you get 

> there?" on US tv. At least they gave a segment to a scientific explanation 

> of people who've had "near death" experiences. THey allclaim to have 

> glimpsed heaven--all with DIFFERENT descriptions of it. A doctor who's 

> studied this for a decade talked about how the dying brain frist shuts down 

> the inhibitory part,and all kinds of meaningful memories, images, ect. flood 

> the brain--thus the images of heaven. Other scientists have found 

> explanations for the bright light effect too. My impression, afterwatching 

> all kinds of brainwashed religious people from all over th world is, that it 

> is a deep, psychological way of coping. Back

> to the scientists--another thinks that there is even a gene that makes one 

> more prone to spirituality. What he chouldn't explain, though, was why 

> certain COUNTRIES that are non-religious don't have the same % of people 

> w/this gene. Is the gene rare in those countries? Religion is a man=made, 

> invented concept w/ no basis in reality. None.

> From: www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk

> To: gathering at misera.net

> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 06:56:32 +0100

> Subject: [kj] KJ & Spirituality

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> I've read that Jaz became a Priest of an Anglican Church in New Zealand a 

> few years ago, resigned from 2 out of 4 mystical orders he was a member of, 

> and has an interest in Gnosticism. Geordie apparently is a Kabbalah Master 

> and Youth is a Druid. Also that Paul Ferguson is not so involved in occult 

> practices now, as in the 1980s. I first began to study world religions and 

> the esoteric, after getting into KJ after I saw them on BBC TV's Top of the 

> Pops and Channel 4's The Tube in 1985. I do believe there is life after 

> death in some form. What do other Gatherers think?

> 

> _______________________________________________

> Gathering mailing list

> Gathering at misera.net

> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

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> Message: 2

> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 07:55:04 +0100

> From: robert best <www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk>

> Subject: [kj] KJ & Spirituality

> To: The Gathering <gathering at misera.net>

> Message-ID: <DUB101-W3036C9F6C7167E79E0144198ED0 at phx.gbl>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> 

> 

> On the 'Killing Joke The Gathering' DVD interview with Jaz, he says that God 

> does not punish people by sending them to a non-existent 'Hell' ie; "God is 

> not so cruel". I do think God/Force whatever you want to call it possibly 

> exists, as the Universe is too complex to have come about by chance? Here is 

> an interview with Jaz when he was first interested in becoming a 

> Priest:http://www.radcyberzine.com/text/interviews/KillingJoke.html

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> ------------------------------

> 

> Message: 3

> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:34:34 +0100

> From: Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com>

> Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality

> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> <gathering at misera.net>

> Message-ID: <4089464B-81F6-4667-891E-324DC4032ABE at gmx.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> 

> I can go along with that Greg.

> Religion is a coping mechanism for those who have a hole in their lives. 

> Rather like drugs or alcohol or food or shopping or whatever.

> 

> I heard once that epileptic people are more likely to be religious which is 

> an interesting thought. Something to do with how the brain is wired 

> differently.

> 

> I have no problem with religion and the believing in God if that helps folk. 

> But I do reject the organised nonsense, the indoctrination and the evil done 

> in the name of God.

> 

> 

> 

> On 7 Jul 2012, at 07:40, GREG SLAWSON <gregslawson at msn.com> wrote:

> 

> > Sorry, there is no life after death. No heaven or hell. If you want to 

> > believe it, you've got to prove it.

> > The good news is that memories of deceased loved ones and friends can live 

> > on for your lifetime. My dad died over a decade ago and I have memories 

> > creep back into my head all the time.

> > Just watched a 2 hour special on "Heaven: What is it? How do you get 

> > there?" on US tv. At least they gave a segment to a scientific explanation 

> > of people who've had "near death" experiences. THey all

> > claim to have glimpsed heaven--all with DIFFERENT descriptions of it. A 

> > doctor who's studied this for a decade talked about how the dying brain 

> > frist shuts down the inhibitory part,

> > and all kinds of meaningful memories, images, ect. flood the brain--thus 

> > the images of heaven. Other scientists have found explanations for the 

> > bright light effect too. My impression, after

> > watching all kinds of brainwashed religious people from all over th world 

> > is, that it is a deep, psychological way of coping.

> > Back to the scientists--another thinks that there is even a gene that 

> > makes one more prone to spirituality. What he chouldn't explain, though, 

> > was why certain COUNTRIES that are non-religious don't

> > have the same % of people w/this gene. Is the gene rare in those 

> > countries? Religion is a man=made, invented concept w/ no basis in 

> > reality. None.

> >

> > From: www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk

> > To: gathering at misera.net

> > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 06:56:32 +0100

> > Subject: [kj] KJ & Spirituality

> >

> > I've read that Jaz became a Priest of an Anglican Church in New Zealand a 

> > few years ago, resigned from 2 out of 4 mystical orders he was a member 

> > of, and has an interest in Gnosticism. Geordie apparently is a Kabbalah 

> > Master and Youth is a Druid. Also that Paul Ferguson is not so involved in 

> > occult practices now, as in the 1980s. I first began to study world 

> > religions and the esoteric, after getting into KJ after I saw them on BBC 

> > TV's Top of the Pops and Channel 4's The Tube in 1985. I do believe there 

> > is life after death in some form. What do other Gatherers think?

> >

> > _______________________________________________ Gathering mailing list 

> > Gathering at misera.net http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> > _______________________________________________

> > Gathering mailing list

> > Gathering at misera.net

> > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

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> ------------------------------

> 

> Message: 4

> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:40:59 +0100

> From: Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com>

> Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality

> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> <gathering at misera.net>

> Message-ID: <1BD7D72F-BCC1-42CE-AEDA-74907A5FB9E7 at gmx.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> 

> I'm open minded about a creator. Who the heck knows.

> If we are an accident, then it's a rather beautiful one.

> If we are an experiment, well, I'm not sure what they make of it.

> 

> When we talk about religion, that's different and I go back to Gregs point 

> about it being a man made concept.

> When they talk about "faith" I can only see a huge hole in the argument. To 

> me, faith, is about a belief that something exists. Trusting that it is 

> there but not actually knowing. And I need proof.

> 

> 

> 

> On 7 Jul 2012, at 07:55, robert best <www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> 

> > On the 'Killing Joke The Gathering' DVD interview with Jaz, he says that 

> > God does not punish people by sending them to a non-existent 'Hell' ie; 

> > "God is not so cruel". I do think God/Force whatever you want to call it 

> > possibly exists, as the Universe is too complex to have come about by 

> > chance? Here is an interview with Jaz when he was first interested in 

> > becoming a Priest:

> > http://www.radcyberzine.com/text/interviews/KillingJoke.html

> > _______________________________________________

> > Gathering mailing list

> > Gathering at misera.net

> > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

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> ------------------------------

> 

> Message: 5

> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:31:32 +0100 (BST)

> From: adrianwason at btinternet.com

> Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality

> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke \(the band!\)"

> <gathering at misera.net>

> Message-ID:

> <1341657092.43123.YahooMailNeo at web87405.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> 

> 

> 

> If we are an accident, then it's a rather beautiful 

> one...................unless you are Rob Moss!!!!!

> 

> 

> ________________________________

> From: Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com>

> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net>

> Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012, 10:40

> Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality

> 

> 

> I'm open minded about a creator. Who the heck knows.?

> If we are an accident, then it's a rather beautiful one.?

> If we are an experiment, well, I'm not sure what they make of it.?

> 

> When we talk about religion, that's different and I go back to Gregs point 

> about it being a man made concept.?

> When they talk about "faith" I can only see a huge hole in the argument. To 

> me, faith, is about a belief that something exists. Trusting that it is 

> there but not actually knowing. And I need proof.?

> 

> 

> 

> On 7 Jul 2012, at 07:55, robert best <www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> >On the 'Killing Joke The Gathering' DVD interview with Jaz, he says that 

> >God does not punish people by sending them to a non-existent 'Hell' ie; 

> >"God is not so cruel". I do think God/Force whatever you want to call it 

> >possibly exists, as the Universe is too complex to have come about by 

> >chance? Here is an interview with Jaz when he was first interested in 

> >becoming a Priest:

> >http://www.radcyberzine.com/text/interviews/KillingJoke.html

> _______________________________________________

> >Gathering mailing list

> >Gathering at misera.net

> >http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> >

> _______________________________________________

> Gathering mailing list

> Gathering at misera.net

> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

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> ------------------------------

> 

> Message: 6

> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:26:31 +1200

> From: bongo <humanhybrid666 at gmail.com>

> Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality

> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> <gathering at misera.net>

> Message-ID:

> <CAJ9w5W7GpE+kuR411_F68s-Nju+TOLizdGrPA53ozBY73c0R_Q at mail.gmail.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> 

> i've had a smoke, so excuse me . . . . . . . . .

> 

> =)

> 

> 

> 

> 

> " there is no life after death. No heaven or hell. If you want to

> believe it, you've got to prove it."

> 

> 

> 

> 

> likewise with your 'belief' that this is it and there is no life after

> death - you *cannot* prove it... we are ignorant of our true place in the

> scheme of things, but there are clues and truths out there.

> one truth- *when you are sincerely selfless and help someone, it feels

> good..* and your spirit feels *lighter*.. (en*light*enment?).this is the

> same regardless of culture. with observation, this is easily something you

> can perceive for yourself.

> 

> random rambling...

> a forest, over time, is still a forest. trees grow and trees decay, but the

> forest is the trees. they become something other than themselves, a greater

> identity... that thought doesnt really go anywhere, but an observation..

> macrocosm microcosm kinda thing, as above, so below..

> 

> another random... what happens to your consciousness when you sleep?

> sometimes it's like you have identity without a body. you can still *see* in

> dreams, still *communicate* with other separate identities/entities in

> dreams.. when we 'die', i sometimes imagine that we just lose the body..and

> the ego... but that our essence continues... worth a thought...?

> 

> i've heard that there are two deaths. the death of the body, and then death

> of the ego (maybe the egyptian BA and KA, cant remember). this could

> explain why ppl have diff accounts of near death experiences. anyway, its

> amazing how witnesses to the same event in the physical world can have

> differing accounts, let alone peaking in to an unfamiliar realm.

> the same environment will often be percieved differently by individuals.

> 

> 

> if you've ever dabbled in good drugs, then i'm sure you've had the

> connected *one with the universe* experience.. speaking of which, how the

> hell can we NOT be at one with the universe?? does it stop at our outer

> cells (*our* outer cells, like we *own* them, lol) and we impose upon it

> from an external unrelated source?

> we are part of this, not apart from it. we are the universe, we are god.

> 

> 

> 

> and of course organised religion is fucked up. but, the essence is there,

> just heavily buried. if parts of the bible are of earlier sumerian origin,

> are the sumerians then full of shit? its just lost in translation over the

> years and hidden in esoteric forms that then have to also undergo

> translation over the years. bits of the bible are from egypt, lost in

> translation. if sumer and egypt weren't the initial source, maybe they had

> it lost in translation also...

> 

> we fall for the false comfort of religion because we dont know who we are

> and where we come from. in much the same way, we fall for other comforts-

> nationalism, sports team, culture, tribe, family... an identity we build

> that is not the real experiencer.

> 

> 

> 

> i recommend finding all the audio lectures of Alan Watts, about 50+ hours

> worth, and listening to them all. ten or more times.

> 

> 

> (ps anyone who is a druid, is not a druid. anyone who is a priest, is not a

> priest. we are all the same)

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> not sure whether to hit send or delete . . . .

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> > ------------------------------

> > From: www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk

> > To: gathering at misera.net

> > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 06:56:32 +0100

> > Subject: [kj] KJ & Spirituality

> >

> >

> > I've read that Jaz became a Priest of an Anglican Church in New Zealand a

> > few years ago, resigned from 2 out of 4 mystical orders he was a member 

> > of,

> > and has an interest in Gnosticism. Geordie apparently is a Kabbalah Master

> > and Youth is a Druid. Also that Paul Ferguson is not so involved in occult

> > practices now, as in the 1980s. I first began to study world religions and

> > the esoteric, after getting into KJ after I saw them on BBC TV's Top of 

> > the

> > Pops and Channel 4's The Tube in 1985. I do believe there is life after

> > death in some form. What do other Gatherers think?

> >

> > _______________________________________________ Gathering mailing list

> > Gathering at misera.net http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > Gathering mailing list

> > Gathering at misera.net

> > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> >

> >

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> ------------------------------

> 

> Message: 7

> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:50:10 +0000

> From: F Luke <fluke1 at live.co.uk>

> Subject: Re: [kj] Funeral pyre

> To: <gathering at misera.net>

> Message-ID: <SNT104-W214E87B074CDC629BC846BEED0 at phx.gbl>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> 

> 

> Hi Rob , all is well , although recently I did have to spend a bit of time 

> in jail and got a six month suspended sentence and a fine , I accidentally 

> got hit over the shoulder with pool cue , I got banned from my friends bar 

> and I had to spend three days in a house with a corpse , the weather seems 

> to be either scorching hot or torrential rain, although there is a pleasant 

> ten minute period between the scorching hot and torrential rain..... anyway 

> at least the locals are nice and friendly and welcoming..............

> 

> From: rob.moss at gmx.com

> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 15:59:17 +0100

> To: gathering at misera.net

> Subject: Re: [kj] Funeral pyre

> 

> Two and a half Pete?

> Nice insight to the culture. Hope all is well

> 

> 

> On 3 Jul 2012, at 14:21, F Luke <fluke1 at live.co.uk> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Went to a local funeral last week, gfs Dad died (its OK, im not looking for 

> any sympathy replies).Got a phone call that he had died, so myself, the gf 

> and her sister jumped in a car and went up to the village, a small village 

> near Laos and Myanmar, got there and went into the house ands the coffin was 

> in the front room and they took the lid off to have a look , the funeral 

> was in three days time and the coffin was staying in the living room until 

> then, we were staying in the adjoining room. Over the next few days, various 

> people came to pay their respects, each removing the lid ans having a 

> look.Monks came around and sang a few songs.

> 

> The day of the funeral arrived and more monks came and chanted, lifted the 

> lid off again and tied some string to his wrists, carried to coffin toa 

> truck, loaded it on the back and we all walked ahead of the truck pulling 

> the string, the coffin was then unloaded to the pyre, where the lid was once 

> again removed and family members poured a flammable liquid onto the body, 

> making sure that it went into his mouth and that the eye sockets were full. 

> The lid was replaced and wholes were made in the lid and more flammable 

> liquid was poured in.

> 

> We stood back . Monks began chanting and it was ignited. We stood and 

> watched it burn, then went back to the house where Monk threw Holy water 

> over us, to make sure we didnt bring any ghosts back with us.

> 

> Three days later, we went back to the pyre, it was still very hot. We were 

> there to retrieve any bones. We searched around the ashes looking for teeth 

> and bones, removing them and placing them on a White sheet, I found a large 

> bone and showed my gf, "Thats a good bit"She said "What bit is it" She 

> asked. "I dont know" I said, so we asked the Monk.He studied it andsaid that 

> it was a thigh bone. She was searching for teeth , its supposed to be good 

> luck if you find someones teeth and keep them on your person.

> 

> I thought that it was going to be really gruesome, but it wasnt . It all 

> seemed quite natural.

> 

> I'd never seen a corpse untill this year, and now I ve seen two and a half 

> corpses already this year

> 

> _______________________________________________

> Gathering mailing list

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> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

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