[kj] Poll: Worst song off OTG

Fri Oct 24 15:18:51 EDT 2014

Hi Jamie,
I think that the band of Killing Joke will always be Jaz and Geordie, I don't have much knowledge of Killing Joke before 1986? I think you make a good point about the relationship between Jaz and BPF.
All of the albums after Pandemonium were inconsistent to a point
Democracy-only Mass/Aeon/Absent Friends and I suppose Intellect/Medicine Wheel
2003-only Blood/Intellect/and first track
Hosannas-Title/UB/Judas Goat
I thought the song-writing was different on AD with highlights Endgames/Fresh Fever/Singularity
And picked up massively on 2012 which was spot on but badly tailed off after Primobile.
The magic will always be there as long as the music is good but some of the band will not play some of their best back catalogue tracks.I think that is a major problem as the gigs are ok but could be festivals of ectasy were it not for laziness, egos and I don't know-its incredibly frustrating.
Last point-Best last performances I saw were with Raven and Benny playing DBD/Termite Mound/SGD in 2005, and surprisingly enough the 2012 tour with new songs!
There is one band (not killing joke)that lost their major performer but after 3 years came back to record their best album ever but there are/were 3 strong song-writers in that band.-Any guesses-you-d be surprised!
To me-the Killing Joke process is Geordie records a wicked demo Jazz adds vocals then it is fucked up.
Looking forward to 2015!
----Original message----
>From : gathering at misera.net
Date : 24/10/2014 - 13:00 (GMTDT)
To : gathering at misera.net
Subject : Re: [kj] Poll: Worst song off OTG
Despite some great gigs, some great songs, and even some impressive albums, I don't think KJ have ever been a band after OTG in the way that they were before OTG.  I think I *believed* that they were during the Extremities period (and yes, the gigs were great, etc etc), but something had been lost that was never regained.
I suspect that the thing that drove Killing Joke in the period 1979-1988 was the tension between Jaz and Big Paul.  I also suspect that the latter had a clearer vision of what the band was trying to achieve, and that without him it ended up in a mess of, well, whatever Jaz's latest theory was.
In terms of OTG itself, I've never really accepted that it "should" have been a Jaz solo album.  Rather, I think that was the problem - that it *became* a Jaz solo album, without the influence of Big Paul (and to a lesser extent, Raven).
I like some of the tracks on OTG, and can easily imagine much better and more compelling versions of them.  But the comment at the time about the lyrics being "what I did on my holidays, by Jeremy Coleman aged 6" was all too accurate.  (Actually, I felt that KJ progressively lost their lyrical bite after Revelations.  Increasingly too wordy, too explicit.)
The various members of the Joke are extremely talented, creative, and intelligent, and as such will continue to perform amazing gigs and will continue to compose *some* great tracks.  But the magic that used to be there is long gone.
Jamie
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Walker <wayneupnorth at hotmail.com>
To: gathering <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 12:05
Subject: Re: [kj] Poll: Worst song off OTG
Ok, maybe terrible is a bit strong but there are tracks on KJ2003 which are just dreadful. Total Invasion is a dirge, Implant is a mess and if I never hear Dark Forces or House again I will be a happy man. Loose Cannon was better in its 2001 session form but not much. The rest is good to Ok but it's my least favourite album. 
From: bq at soundgardener.co.nz
To: gathering at misera.net
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 21:17:45 +1300
Subject: Re: [kj] Poll: Worst song off OTG
All of the albums cited as worse than OTG have some decent to standout tracks. Nothing on OTG comes close to Savage Freedom, criminally under-rated! Great momentum and drive, a real stomper…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuR8046V4hw 

There’s Gratitude and Invocation on Hosannas, and whoever mentioned 2003 as terrible – you take that back. You take that right back right now.

From: Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of bongo
Sent: Friday, 24 October 2014 6:08 p.m.
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] Poll: Worst song off OTG

not quite getting the Hosannas hate, the opening is quite a fury..
SOJA is my weak link, tho i still like it a bit 

:)

"due to a lack of trained trumpeters, the end of the world has been postponed indefinitely..."

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:56 PM, <bq at soundgardener.co.nz> wrote:
"Cheese" and "knob" are VERY hard to combine in a sentence without evoking certain connotations.
---- Original Message ----
From: The Stranger via Gathering <gathering at misera.net>
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 24, 2014, 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: [kj] Poll: Worst song off OTG
I have to agree with FP here.  The songwriting on OTG is really solid.  The atmospheres evoked are really eerie and otherworldly.  One thing I love is the weird vocal melodies with notes that are miles apart on the scale..  

Could the cheese knob have been turned down a few notches on some of the keyboards?  Yes.

Stay One Jump Ahead (extended mix) is definitely the worst.  Possibly even the worst thing that has ever happened.  In the world.  Ever.  

Killing Joke - Stay One Jump Ahead (extended mix)
Killing Joke - Stay One Jump Ahead (extended mix)
View on www.youtube.com
Preview by Yahoo

That rap!  Like getting slapped in the face with a rotten fish.  Here's a sample of the rap relating to Geordie's guitar playing "the sound fer sound, resounding into yer brain, ya know, so you can never run away, he pumpin like a train!  Chifity chaff, but I'm a goin' down the track, because I do what I feel, because he never takes slack!!"  wtf?  Also, I just never need to hear the words "the posse in da house" on a Killing Joke record..  Ever.  

It reminds me of a time that I met Jaz outside of the NYC bar where gatherers were meeting before the show.  Jaz's young nephew was there filming and interviewing gatherers and the way he was speaking was as if he were a hardcore rapper straight outta Compton.  At one point Jaz turned to him and screamed "....WHY ARE YOU TALKING LIKE A BLACK PERSON?!?!?!?!"  hahahahahaaaa!!!

From: fatpotanga <fatpotanga at gmail.com>
To: The Gathering ((the band!)) <gathering at misera.net> 
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: [kj] Poll: Worst song off OTG

at the risk of being buried up to my neck and stoned, I quite like most of OTG. 
Yes, it’s all a bit cheesy and naffly produced, but the actual musical structures and lyrics are great. It’s just not been very well done. 
It has dated horribly though.
Unto the Ends I absolutely love, especially the lyrics and progressions are fantastic. 
It’s a shame it was never what it was intended to be; a Jaz Coleman solo album as a lot of the ideas are pretty solid. Like I said, it’s just been badly executed. 
I’d love to hear a lot of OTG reworked, but it’ll never happen.
Still, without OTG, EDAVRE to where they are now would never have happened.

For me by far the worst track off it is on the CD version: Stay One Jump Ahead extended mix with Jaz’s embarrassing dad rapping.
Quite possibly the worst Killing Joke song EVER produced.
Ironically, the opening guitar riff is one of Geordies best.

For me Democracy is the most disappointing/least played.

On 23 Oct 2014, at 09:27, Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz> wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfI8vtuj9vM

sounds like Sting and Peter Gabriel having a wank in a biscuit tin. 

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