[kj] kj] Age of Greed- Veggie Heaven
Adam Helfer
devacor at aol.com
Sat Oct 17 13:35:49 EDT 2015
I'll say a few things in response to some of what's been put in this thread..
And as a veggie and a researcher --
- 1 - meat/climate change/sustainable-- skewed/Mis interpreted stats that are basing this on conventional/industrial animals and their waste and emissions..it's due to what they are being fed / un natural - but it's not an inherent issue..
It's quite different with pastured animals, as they eat what the are supposed to -- and for instance pastured cow dung in relation to dung, soil and environment would actually cleanse and balance the atmosphere , not harm it..
And there is a model in which small and medium sized organic/pastured farms could feed the planet..
2 - indigenous cultures left to just nature , without any dogma or religious indoctrination -
There is no vegetarian or vegan found in nature - with the exception of India , but anything veggie is based on religious indoctrination..
And these cultures were very compassionate, in tune, and understanding the inter connectedness of life -none chose veggie..and they thrived..
And some had an abundance of plant foods, but actually would risk their lives to hunt for various animal foods, as they knew it's what tied their health together..
Such as this one culture who had plenty of food ,but hunted sharks with crude tools for fermented shark livers. - in which the saw what it did to fortify their health..
3 - based on the end of #2 - vegetarians as 'healthier'/health reasons, is a skewed myth --the stats on that are (again) comparing people eating a conventional meat eating diet - which conventional animal products can be night/day compared to pastured products..
In which is why there was some I defends cultures who are mostly animal products ,but didn't have a word for cancer in their vocabulary..
So if you take stats for people eating only pastured animals products vs veg, different outcome..
And I've worked in health and wellness long enough to see that there isn't one diet that fits everyone- a lot is due to ones ancestral heritage,.
Myself and associates have almost a crappy part time job out of it, but rehabbing vegans and veggies, mostly 'health food' ones, whose health fails..mostly athletic females..
Crux of the issue is , proper fats- we need fats to assimilate our fat soluble vitamins..
Plant fats don't have all the components to be efficient in doing so..
Most people , even if they wanted to, would not thrive on a veggie or vegan diet and eventually would have issues - I see it all the time..
And going back to the indigenous/nature diet choices and fact that most people don't really thrive on a veggie diet.
Seems a little ridiculous to think , if ones accepts the 'gears of karma' that nature is made to not provide most humans to thrive on a veggie /vegan diet- yet will 'karmically judge them' by eating what they need to thrive but punish them for it,.
I've spent too much time around high ranking members of the veggie /vegan police , interchangeable with the 'karma police' , interchangable w fundamental religionists who are working with Mis interpretations and skew and highlight texts and passages to support their fundamentalism,.
-- to have Any more patience with that sort of crap..
And no Jim, that has nothing to do w being pissed when someone says mm bacon in response to ones veggieness. That's just weak lameness..
When all sentiment and half truths are shaken out- being veggie is just a personal choice - no more, no less - and someone should be respected for a conscious personal choice,.
Adam
> On Oct 17, 2015, at 12:01 PM, Jim Harper <jimharper666 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I have no problem with meat-eaters. None of my wives/girlfriends/sigoths have been vegetarians. My mother was, but none of my remaining relatives are.
>
> I do dislike those who think that saying "bacon sandwich" in front of a veggie is (a) funny, and (b) likely to provoke the same response as waving a crucifix in front of a vampire. Neither is true, and you're a moron.
>
> Jim.
>
> On Sat, 17/10/15, Adam Helfer via Gathering <gathering at misera.net> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [kj] kj] Age of Greed- Veggie Heaven
> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" <gathering at misera.net>
> Cc: "Adam Helfer" <devacor at aol.com>
> Date: Saturday, 17 October, 2015, 16:56
>
> Speaking from a Veggie-
> takes more to 'regaining a human birth or beyond',
> then being a smug asshole vegetarian..
>
> And in veggie self- righteousness, when one
> predictably tries to whip out the 'wheels of karma'
> on an omnivore, they themselves get the wheels put to
> them..
>
> A plant eater
> getting just that - Rebirth as a Plant
>
> To potentially get eaten by an animal, to get
> crapped out and fed to a pig, made into bacon...
>
> Circle of life at it's
> finest..
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 17, 2015, at 10:58
> AM, Paul Rangecroft <paul.rangecroft at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Ju... ju
> ju ju... just K k... k karma, Porky!
>
>>> On 10/17/15, Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz>
> wrote:
>>> "Enjoy your countless
> future animal rebirths."
>>>
>>> Is that some kind of meat loyalty club
> thing? Can I have countless future
> rebirths of whichever one bacon comes from...?
> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:
> Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]
> On Behalf Of Paul
>>> Rangecroft
>>> Sent: Saturday, 17 October 2015 11:02
> p.m.
>>> To: A list about all things
> Killing Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [kj] kj] Age of Greed
>>>
>>> Wasn't
> it Alex who started this thread by proudly declaring he was
> in no way
>>> a vegetarian?
>>>
>>> I'll
> never be able to understand how someone can put their own
> temporary
>>> pleasure above the life
> of another sentient being but hey that's just me.
>>> Enjoy your countless future animal
> rebirths.
> Even if you don't agree with that, only climate change
> deniers should eat
>>> meat because the
> environmental impact is so high.
>
>>> "You are an inspiration to
> me..."
>>>
>>>> On 10/16/15, Mike Cooper <mike at coopersurf.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>>>> Not a vegan, but am a
> veggie. But can I make the point that
>>>> proportion of people saying that
> they are meat eaters is way greater.
>>>> Take a pub scene one person says
> they are vegan, six will then say “they
>>>> either love meat”
>>>> and six will say or “cannot
> live without bacon” .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I make that 12 to 1. I rest my
> case!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To be fair I found out two weeks
> ago that a friend of six or seven
>>>> years is vegan – never told
> anyone.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]
> On Behalf Of
>>>> Brendan Quinn
>>>> Sent: 16 October 2015 15:55
>>>> To: 'A list about all things
> Killing Joke (the band!)'
> <gathering at misera.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] kj] Age of
> Greed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maddox, of ‘Best Page in the
> Universe’ fame, has an amusing take on it:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=bsitu_e01
> – starts 05:17
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vegan-Asshole Correlation
> Theory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> t = Time it takes to explain
> stupid diet
>>>>
>>>> M = Amount of meat not eaten
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> t =
> 1/M
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> “The amount of time it takes for
> somebody to explain their diet is
>>>> inversely proportional to the
> amount of meat they don't eat, and
>>>> directly proportional to how big
> of an asshole they are”
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ;)
>
>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]
> On Behalf Of Rob
>>>> Moss
>>>> Sent: Friday, 16 October 2015 2:35
> a.m.
>>>> To: A list about all
> things Killing Joke (the band!)
> <gathering at misera.net
> <mailto:gathering at misera.net>
>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] kj] Age
> of Greed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How do you know someone is a
> vegan?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't worry. They'll
> fucking tell you!! ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 15 Oct 2015, at 15:28,
> wessidetempest . <
> <mailto:wessidetempest at hotmail.com>
> wessidetempest at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
> I'm a vegetarian for over 20 years. 99% for health
> reasons. I've been
> known to stray. Never because I cave meat hit because I am
> in a
>>>>> scenario that involves
> meat. For example a friend has an annual
>>>>> chili cook off that I
> contribute to. Well to be part of the fun and
>>>>> submit a vote you have to try
> it all. Another time was seeing Tom
>>>>> Waits. It seemed very
> appropriate to go get a nice steak and bourbon.
>>>>
> So I'm not opposed to having meat occasionally. But I
> never crave it.
>>>>> Never liked
> seafood. Appreciate a good steak but never crave it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 9:02
> AM, Jim Harper <
> <mailto:jimharper666 at yahoo.co.uk>
> jimharper666 at yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Been a vegetarian for 30
> years. Can't honestly say I miss steak ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Jim.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 14/10/15,
> Alexander Smith < <mailto:vassifer at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> vassifer at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] kj] Age
> of Greed
>>>>
>>>>>> To: "A list about all
> things Killing Joke (the band!)"
>>>>
>>>>>> < <mailto:gathering at misera.net>
> gathering at misera.net>
>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 14
> October, 2015, 19:03
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Jon, if you ever make it
> to NYC, I
>>>>
>>>>>> will take you to a steak
> house that will make you eat those hastily
>>>>
>>>>>> uttered words.
>>>>
>>>>>> Alex in NYC … in no way
> a
>>>>
>>>>>> vegetarian.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct
>>>>
>>>>>> 14, 2015, at 11:44 AM, jon
> chapman <
> <mailto:jonniespatula at hotmail.co.uk>
>>>>>> jonniespatula at hotmail.co.uk>
>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> THE YANKS have never had a
> tender and juicy one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> From:
>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:danielcorvo at hotmail.co.uk>
> danielcorvo at hotmail.co.uk
>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015
>>>>
>>>>>> 16:23:40 +0100
>>>>
>>>>>> To: <mailto:gathering at misera.net>
> gathering at misera.net
>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] kj]
> Age
>>>>
>>>>>> of Greed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Does look tender and
> juicy...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>> On 14 Oct 2015, at 16:22,
> Tabazan
>>>>
>>>>>> < <mailto:tabazan at gmail.com>
> tabazan at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> You can't read that
>>>>
>>>>>> without hearing the drums
> start can you :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at
>>>>
>>>>>> 1:23 PM, Alexander Smith
> < <mailto:vassifer at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> vassifer at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Spotted this morning.
> Check out the
>>>>
>>>>>> tag line at the top of the
> back of the truck.
>>>>
>>>>>> <image1.JPG>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> <http://www.myspace.com/lycopodeiauk>
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