[kj] Gathering Digest, Vol 168, Issue 38

Mon Jan 30 13:03:57 EST 2017

Spot on, especially the final paragraph.

Thomas Paine will be turning in his grave at the moment.

Jamie

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Cooper <mike at coopersurf.fsnet.co.uk>
To: 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)' <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 17:35
Subject: Re: [kj] Gathering Digest, Vol 168, Issue 38

Kev,  are we not seeing here though not the control of borders but the exclusion of people dependant on faith to a degree and country of origin?  I am white and from the UK and allowed entry.  Mo Farah is also from the UK, a knight of the realm but is  black, Muslim and probably not allowed entry.  Go figure!  How tight is the Canadian border?  This is all about race and that is dangerously fascistic whatever you say or defend.

Alex has repeatedly said that this is just about Trump who is now in power.  If it makes it easier for your argument to refer back to Clinton et al fine, but they are not president now and nowhere in any of the arguments has anyone praised Obama. At least Clinton has got her chain of greeting card shops to fall back on now. 

As for narcissistic quite right people are going batshit about this – is this not “democracy” but I would wager that it is just everyday people from milkmen to brain surgeons , just ordinary people who oppose Trump.  

But your comment yesterday about him not being a politician for me that is a massive issue and I’m not interested in the views of a few anarchists on this – its simpler than that and I am capable of making my own mind up.  But firstly  so many MP’s do have experience of business because they are all rich and want to maintain that for themselves and their ilk, others mostly of liberal or left wing views do it because they feel they can contribute to their community.  But most politicians even those of a business background,  go through local politics and years understanding how it works – of course this doesn’t make the system right or smooth but it does give a degree of accountability and scrutiny and it allows everyone to get involved if they wish to.  Having said that it needs changing but at the moment we are not focussing on that are we? 

So secondly  I work with politicians to a degree– in  my last job mostly and  in my current one to a much lesser degree thankfully, both those at a local and occasionally at a national government  level and on the odd occasions secretary of states, plus a guy on the team I am  currently working for is a senior Tory councillor, full of crap politically but actually quite a good bloke politics aside.  I have written hundreds of briefing notes or reports for them , some speeches, had 100 of meetings with those from all parties,  dealt with emails and their phone calls as well as those from them or “their team”,. I’ve been on a government advisory committee, been humiliated in public by them on a few occasions and had some good drinks with some and laughs with others.   On the whole – arseholes but most are actually ordinary family people, some are great, versatile, kind and caring people who want to change for the better and some though will go a life time without actually ever making the world a better place. But what I do see in my  is that those with a greater vested interest are far more aloof, more stubborn, more clique with their own kind and a bit more closed off. You see that with the current UK government as well.

So knowing a bit about how they think, what makes them tick, why they become politicians and it also helps to be able to see through them when needed and accept actions in other cases.  Regardless of their politics I did what they asked of me and respected when they asked for my input in my field, it is my chosen profession and I am paid to do this – it is up to me to move on if I am not happy (as I did in my last job).  BUT all of them have a degree of political experience and the absolute crucial ability to know that a  good number of people don’t agree with you – it goes with the turf big time.  People will be rude to you, hate your views, call you things etc. as  much as others will cheer you, praise you and so on.  You need to be able to remain calm, in control and think. But above all you need to listen and appreciate advice from people who do know what’s what, listen to those either in a government office, local council, the subject experts and most importantly the people that they represent and then form policy and actions accordingly.   In all my experience of these people and despite the ups and downs all had a respect for the system they represented, the political decorum and respect for others who don’t agree.  Do you honestly see that in Trump? Do you see any  political decorum or respect for the process he know leads?  Change that process by all means but you do it democratically and not just to suit you! 

So there my boring long winded opinion but it is clear Trump has NO ability to do any of the above and that is a major problem for the US, global harmony but more importantly the more ordinary people who will stand up to him.  So therefore the better because it will reduce his ability to get away with harmful right wing actions that WON’T benefit the working man or women, EVER.  He is obviously a master of divide and rule, finds easy scapegoats and he clearly thinks everyone loves him when they don’t thus cannot cope with people who have different views e.g. CNN. This is NOT the way to run a country and if I were you I would be worried about his posts relating to the inauguration as sooner or later if it does not sink in that people will oppose his views the payback will get worse every time.  

But watch how he does not answer difficult questions, he dodges them and that is also a worry – as soon he will stop allowing people to ask questions that do not agree with his process.  Then look at how he bullies his wife, other women and his peers losing their calming influence and restraint.  So with that in mind you watch over the next 12 months at how he WILL take steps to claim as much control for himself as he can as in that time the bills he signed recently will be put to congress and given his own party are already one week in grumbling etc. (remember his inability to listen) how much democracy will be eroded, how much self-control will he exercise, who will he take it out on. Chances are someone or some race will be made to pay to maintain the air of power, control and arrogance. Those around him will obey or face public humiliation and all this smacks of Hitleresque dictatorship and is indeed for me disturbing.  Unfair comparison?  Maybe but how much will be removed from the ordinary person in the process.

He says he wants to help the working man  and increase their wage etc. but ask him if he want unions in the workplace or to give them a better say?  Surely the best way to get the ordinary man or women a better, fairer workplace? We both know the answer to that – image a union at Trumps hotels ha ha.

The real way to solve the world’s problems is to remove the power of corporations, reduce greed, reduce the emphasis on finance and banking, reduce the gulf in rich and poor, pay a fair days wage for a fair days work, fairer taxation , cooperative workplaces and focus on communities, good infrastructure, public transport, cycling and walking, active lifestyles, better housing, better towns/cities, sustainable employment, recreation, the environment, sustainable energy and recycling, clean air, clean seas, personal safety and compassion.  All of which are practical and despite sounding pie in the sky doable - 

From: Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of kevin
Sent: 30 January 2017 13:54
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] Gathering Digest, Vol 168, Issue 38

But Alex- Trump was elected after campaigning on what he was he has done over the past few days.
People voted for this. I still don`t see how wanting to control borders into a nation state is such a big
deal. Obama did just the same for twice the period of time (6 months) with Iraq right??
They ( Trump-obama-Hillary-bernie-etc ect)have to be compared at some point-otherwise its just  rejecting the possibility of making comparisons in order to eliminate an avenue of argument IMHO.
BTW I think Bernie could have possibly beaten Trump but no they had to have Hillary didn`t they- had to have their queen in there. Did you watch the Young Turks election night coverage-one minute they are sitting there all excited about her getting in and the next minute they are pissing their pants and fuming about how such a terrible candidte coud have been chosen.
I think its a case of the whole media gaslighting themselves. Their campaign against Trump ws so big that they ended up believing it themselves and ignoring what was actually going on on the ground. 

I`ve been thinking about these words `infantile and nacissistic` and I can`t help but to keep thinking about Aleister Crowley. Can I be the fist to make the `counter culture` go absolutley batshit cazy by proclaining Trump an advent of the Aeon of Horus-The crowned and conquering child.. 

And Alex-I`m sorry your post has been blocked. I can totally get why you don`t like Trump and why you are upset at the moment but in my view a lot of this is just being whipped up by the media and associated shills ligned to Clinton/Obama/Soros/Brezinski cabal- it reminds me of these `riots` we had in the UK in 2011-that was just a local disturbance that could have been shut down in about half an hour (I was there- I cycled right through it ) but the media started broadcasting it live all over TV and then it went viral. I know a lot of people have got genuine issues with Trump but this kind of mass movement against him - which appears to be a kind of wierd chimera of a kind of politically correct Puritan movement and the Witch trials (visually resembling something from a Hieronymous Bosch painting)- just looks like a kind of insane mass hysteria from where I`m sittiing

""In his first ban, according to a search of White House records, Obama instituted a ban on "immigrants or nonimmigrants" covered by a larger United Nations travel ban. He also included those on an economic sanctions list. Most countries were Muslim.
He cited the very same section of law that many critics of his policies have asked him to use, "section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952." It says, "Whenever the president finds that the entry of aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, the president may, by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or non-immigrant's or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate."
He used the same provision five other times, one more in 2011, twice in 2012 and twice in 2014. In those, he targeted people aiding Iran, Syria, Crimea, and those involved in war crimes.""

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNu4xU9qOEM

YouTube

www.youtube.com

and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

From: Gathering <gathering-bounces at misera.net> on behalf of gathering-request at misera.net <gathering-request at misera.net>
Sent: 30 January 2017 06:24
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Gathering Digest, Vol 168, Issue 38 

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The Gathering - Digest

Today's Topics:

   1. Response to Kevin's Trump support (Alexander Smith)

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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 17:56:30 -0500
From: Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
        <gathering at misera.net>
Subject: [kj] Response to Kevin's Trump support
Message-ID: <D7D3A857-192E-436D-ADBA-D11EA4F8F3BB at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Weirdly, my response was blocked and subject to moderator approval because the thread is too big, so here?s just my response to Kevin?s last answer (pasted below mine).

Again ? this isn?t about Obama, this isn?t about Hilary and this isn?t about Bernie. Stop comparing them and alluding to them. This is about Trump, and all that he represents, and everything he?s bringing on board. 

I?m stunned that someone can look at Trump?s actions of the past few days and still entirely okay with it. But, ? maybe you don?t live here?

In any case, I did ask, and you did answer, so thanks for that. I should probably let it go right there.

Alex in NYC

Kevin?s answer:

Yeah, I can see why someone would see Trump as infantile because he often acts kind of like a cab driver but I like that about him. He is genuine and not reading off a teleprompter. I and virtually everyone I know can be infantile-its part of being human, I can`t knock someone for being a regular guy-that`s what I want to see. putin can be infantile sometimes but that guy is a fucking leader. As far as narcissism goes half the world is in a state of narcissism as far as I can tell. There is an enormous percentage of young people who just want to be `famous` with no other aim than that. Trump just strikes me as being one of those guys who likes to flaunt his wealth like a Frank Warren or a David Sullivan. Personally I have no problem with people like that-that lifestyle is not for me but if someone is into all that then thats their right to live how they want if they can achieve it. This guy employs thousands of people and makes a real difference to their lives- he has built shit for 
 most of his life- what the fuck has Obama ever done apart from feather his own nest and slither up the political ladder with his globalist agenda driven backers like Zbigniew Brezinski. And Obama has to be the most narcissistic person I have ever seen
Mr `has anybody got a bottle of water` Obama.
This is another thing with trump- he is painted as this awful person- well I don`t see how someone so bad and secretly degenerate could raise 2 sons who can go on national TV and have respectful and erudite debates with professional talking heads and come out on top. Those kids of his are disciplined and  well raised-they are not my kind of person but they are clearly not the offspring of some arsehole narcissist as opposed to Paris Hilton or something. 
They wheeled out that old hippy Richard Branson a while ago who was going on about a meeting he had with trump and how Trump was the most vindictive person he had ever met and how awful it would be to have such a vindictive person in the White house- since he got in he has not shown evidence of that accusation- in fact the two people that I thought he was going to go after, Paul Ryan and Ted Cruz have not been on the recieving end of anything from Trump as far as I know. 
He had the whole of the GOP against him and trying to stop him and he has just brushed that off and got on with it like a businessman.
And yes jim you are right-they did attack Clinton but thats just the campaign, thats politics, the point i was making is that every media outlet worldwide-even the traditional Republican party -didn`t want him to win-You go and watch the second debate he had with Clinton- AnerCIAon Cooperhas clearly got an agenda to bring down Trump-its written all over his face- he is looking at Trump like he is going for him but at the same time he is petrified of him. In my univers that debate would be made into a film. That was one of the most incredible things Ive ever seen.
Any yeah Alex-his first week has been strange to say the least-just imagine- a candidate getting in and then proceeding to do what he said he was going to do in his campaign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUipvrMYw9g <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUipvrMYw9g> 

Obama and the Fake Fainting Fainters Who Faint

www.youtube.com

Judge for yourself.

Obama and the Fake Fainting Fainters Who Faint

www.youtube.com

Judge for yourself.

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