From chrisc at meldstar.com Tue May 16 13:39:37 2006 From: chrisc at meldstar.com (Christopher S. Charabaruk) Date: Tue May 16 13:39:38 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: Forum Moderation In-Reply-To: <40c95ef00605160845s1ac9a72bofbf16f0d0922d4df@mail.gmail.com> References: <40c95ef00605151850x89bab25n338103be249f9722@mail.gmail.com> <20060516062219.46765.qmail@web54408.mail.yahoo.com> <40c95ef00605160845s1ac9a72bofbf16f0d0922d4df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060516133937.7m10aigiehxcwkcw@meldstar.com> I just took care of putting Isaac on the site. (As well as a secret message which is (hopefully) soon to be revealed.) -- Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation? At Tue 16 May 2006 11:45:37 AM EDT, C Ratchet said: > OK I'll get you added. Also, can you please add Isaac Squires to the > current participants page? He's a local SIG member who's also helping > out. > > > > On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: >> Sure I will help but I am not on there much anymore. This will force me to >> be more active. Which I like. Ion Hardie of Reflexive expressed intrest in >> Both E4 and the Texas Independant Game Conference. As of now he is not >> attending but well see. :) >> >> >> C Ratchet wrote: >> I need some help moderating the forums, are you guys interested in helping? >> >> Michael >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> Raymond Chandler III >> Independant Game Developer >> www.avengersoft.com >> IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster >> www.igda.org/indie > From chrisc at meldstar.com Tue May 16 13:43:33 2006 From: chrisc at meldstar.com (Christopher S. Charabaruk) Date: Tue May 16 13:43:34 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] State of the Indie Message-ID: <20060516134333.dvrlx83cyw4kgsoc@meldstar.com> This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we never got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged by the SIG showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie "industry". To help with writing the report, there would be a couple surveys as well -- one big survey for gathering gross statistics, and some stages of interviews with selected (or lotteried) participants of the big survey for finer details. I'm already claiming this as my baby, but it'd be great for others (even those not officially helping manage the SIG) to join this project so that I'm not a committee of one. Any support? -- Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation? From zratchet at gmail.com Tue May 16 13:59:30 2006 From: zratchet at gmail.com (C Ratchet) Date: Tue May 16 13:59:32 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <20060516134333.dvrlx83cyw4kgsoc@meldstar.com> References: <20060516134333.dvrlx83cyw4kgsoc@meldstar.com> Message-ID: <40c95ef00605161059y66143f9dt1015d8434fcb8cf9@mail.gmail.com> Sounds like a good idea. We should probably do a writeup on the idea and submit it to Jason Della Rocca as an official whitepaper. I'm pretty much free the next two weeks if we need to chat about it. Thanks Michael On 5/16/06, Christopher S. Charabaruk wrote: > This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we never > got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged by the SIG > showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie "industry". To help with > writing the report, there would be a couple surveys as well -- one big > survey for gathering gross statistics, and some stages of interviews with > selected (or lotteried) participants of the big survey for finer details. > > I'm already claiming this as my baby, but it'd be great for others (even > those not officially helping manage the SIG) to join this project so that > I'm not a committee of one. > > Any support? > > -- > Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk > Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > From thb at gameattorney.com Tue May 16 14:46:17 2006 From: thb at gameattorney.com (Thomas H. Buscaglia) Date: Tue May 16 16:04:17 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <20060516134333.dvrlx83cyw4kgsoc@meldstar.com> References: <20060516134333.dvrlx83cyw4kgsoc@meldstar.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060516143646.068dc168@gameattorney.com> This sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and resources to put into it because it looks to be a real time hog, especially the surveys. But they would be a great contribution. I think on thing you need to do is establish a clear delineation of what an indie is for purposes of the white paper. Although I do not think you consider id and Valve to be within the ambit of this work, they are for sure independent studios. So some thought will need to go into your target audience in the process. You may want to consider the casual games mail list as a possible source for additional independents. Good luck and let me know if you need any help. Tom B At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: >This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we never >got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged by the SIG >showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie "industry". To help with >writing the report, there would be a couple surveys as well -- one big >survey for gathering gross statistics, and some stages of interviews with >selected (or lotteried) participants of the big survey for finer details. > >I'm already claiming this as my baby, but it'd be great for others (even >those not officially helping manage the SIG) to join this project so that >I'm not a committee of one. > >Any support? > >-- >Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk >Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation?? > > > > >_______________________________________________ >indies mailing list >indies@igda.org >http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire The Game Attorney T. H. Buscaglia and Associates 80 Southwest 8th Street Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center Miami, FL 33130 Tel (305) 324-6000 Fax (305) 324-1111 Toll Free 888-848-GLAW http://www.gameattorney.com ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://four.pairlist.net/pipermail/indies/attachments/20060516/f12b246b/attachment.html From chrisc at meldstar.com Tue May 16 16:21:50 2006 From: chrisc at meldstar.com (Christopher S. Charabaruk) Date: Tue May 16 16:21:52 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060516143646.068dc168@gameattorney.com> References: <20060516134333.dvrlx83cyw4kgsoc@meldstar.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060516143646.068dc168@gameattorney.com> Message-ID: <20060516162150.mak0u0sx1n8gkwk4@meldstar.com> This is why I keep bringing up our definition of an indie every business meeting, too. Our term could be too strict (a five person garage team who got a deal to have their game on Steam could be ruled out) while traditional thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more than self-publish). While it'd probably make things even more complicated, though, it might be interesting to take all this into account, by asking developers if they believe they are independent (yes/no question) followed by their own definition of indie or their reasoning for their decision (a nice essay question, just like killed me in communications classes). Then, at the report stage, we use all that information to determine a mean or median definition, based on what everyone said. Or, for the sake of my sanity, whose grasp is tenuous as it is, that can wait for next year's report. Certainly, we need to rework the definition prior to conducting the surveys and writing the report. But how do we change the definition to let in the former example while denying the latter? Personally, I think that the word 'formal' has much to do with the uncertainty around what is indie or not. Someone (probably myself) could write an entire essay for the SIG site just on the definition alone to try and clarify matters, but chances are it'd only make things muddier. I think this time around, we might just be able to get away winging it, with a few happy little disclaimers before anyone's allowed to take the surveys. I'd like to hear your thoughts on improving the definition we use, though. -- Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation? At Tue 16 May 2006 02:46:17 PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" said: > This sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and > resources to put into it because it looks to be a real time hog, > especially the surveys. But they would be a great contribution. > > I think on thing you need to do is establish a clear delineation of > what an indie is for purposes of the white paper. Although I do not > think you consider id and Valve to be within the ambit of this work, > they are for sure independent studios. So some thought will need to > go into your target audience in the process. You may want to > consider the casual games mail list as a possible source for > additional independents. > > Good luck and let me know if you need any help. > > Tom B > > At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: >> This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we never >> got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged by the SIG >> showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie "industry". To help with >> writing the report, there would be a couple surveys as well -- one big >> survey for gathering gross statistics, and some stages of interviews with >> selected (or lotteried) participants of the big survey for finer details. >> >> I'm already claiming this as my baby, but it'd be great for others (even >> those not officially helping manage the SIG) to join this project so that >> I'm not a committee of one. >> >> Any support? >> >> -- >> Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk >> Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation?? >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> indies mailing list >> indies@igda.org >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > The Game Attorney > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > 80 Southwest 8th Street > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center > Miami, FL 33130 > Tel (305) 324-6000 > Fax (305) 324-1111 > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > http://www.gameattorney.com > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication > from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading > it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at > thb@intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. > From animegalore1985 at yahoo.com Tue May 16 16:45:56 2006 From: animegalore1985 at yahoo.com (Raymond Chandler) Date: Tue May 16 16:45:58 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <20060516134333.dvrlx83cyw4kgsoc@meldstar.com> Message-ID: <20060516204556.50763.qmail@web54409.mail.yahoo.com> I would love to give my support for this. "Christopher S. Charabaruk" wrote: This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we never got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged by the SIG showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie "industry". To help with writing the report, there would be a couple surveys as well -- one big survey for gathering gross statistics, and some stages of interviews with selected (or lotteried) participants of the big survey for finer details. I'm already claiming this as my baby, but it'd be great for others (even those not officially helping manage the SIG) to join this project so that I'm not a committee of one. Any support? -- Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation??? _______________________________________________ indies mailing list indies@igda.org http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://four.pairlist.net/pipermail/indies/attachments/20060516/3a664cd3/attachment.html From animegalore1985 at yahoo.com Tue May 16 16:51:38 2006 From: animegalore1985 at yahoo.com (Raymond Chandler) Date: Tue May 16 16:51:39 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <20060516162150.mak0u0sx1n8gkwk4@meldstar.com> Message-ID: <20060516205138.35697.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> I personally like the mean/median idea. It allows us to allow for a comprimise on the deffinition of the term and can also help spur some support on the matter. I think winging it would be a bit of a mistake If we are wanting to take a more formal approach to the matter. I would like to see this sort of thing be a reccuring report on behalf of the SIG to show where we are going and where we want to be. The "What's Next" of indie. "Christopher S. Charabaruk" wrote: This is why I keep bringing up our definition of an indie every business meeting, too. Our term could be too strict (a five person garage team who got a deal to have their game on Steam could be ruled out) while traditional thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more than self-publish). While it'd probably make things even more complicated, though, it might be interesting to take all this into account, by asking developers if they believe they are independent (yes/no question) followed by their own definition of indie or their reasoning for their decision (a nice essay question, just like killed me in communications classes). Then, at the report stage, we use all that information to determine a mean or median definition, based on what everyone said. Or, for the sake of my sanity, whose grasp is tenuous as it is, that can wait for next year's report. Certainly, we need to rework the definition prior to conducting the surveys and writing the report. But how do we change the definition to let in the former example while denying the latter? Personally, I think that the word 'formal' has much to do with the uncertainty around what is indie or not. Someone (probably myself) could write an entire essay for the SIG site just on the definition alone to try and clarify matters, but chances are it'd only make things muddier. I think this time around, we might just be able to get away winging it, with a few happy little disclaimers before anyone's allowed to take the surveys. I'd like to hear your thoughts on improving the definition we use, though. -- Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation??? At Tue 16 May 2006 02:46:17 PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" said: > This sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and > resources to put into it because it looks to be a real time hog, > especially the surveys. But they would be a great contribution. > > I think on thing you need to do is establish a clear delineation of > what an indie is for purposes of the white paper. Although I do not > think you consider id and Valve to be within the ambit of this work, > they are for sure independent studios. So some thought will need to > go into your target audience in the process. You may want to > consider the casual games mail list as a possible source for > additional independents. > > Good luck and let me know if you need any help. > > Tom B > > At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: >> This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we never >> got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged by the SIG >> showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie "industry". To help with >> writing the report, there would be a couple surveys as well -- one big >> survey for gathering gross statistics, and some stages of interviews with >> selected (or lotteried) participants of the big survey for finer details. >> >> I'm already claiming this as my baby, but it'd be great for others (even >> those not officially helping manage the SIG) to join this project so that >> I'm not a committee of one. >> >> Any support? >> >> -- >> Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk >> Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation?? >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> indies mailing list >> indies@igda.org >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > ?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > The Game Attorney > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > 80 Southwest 8th Street > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center > Miami, FL 33130 > Tel (305) 324-6000 > Fax (305) 324-1111 > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > http://www.gameattorney.com > ?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication > from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading > it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at > thb@intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. > _______________________________________________ indies mailing list indies@igda.org http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies Thank you, Raymond Chandler III Independant Game Developer www.avengersoft.com IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster www.igda.org/indie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://four.pairlist.net/pipermail/indies/attachments/20060516/b8320b12/attachment.htm From zratchet at gmail.com Tue May 16 17:17:50 2006 From: zratchet at gmail.com (C Ratchet) Date: Tue May 16 17:17:53 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <20060516205138.35697.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060516162150.mak0u0sx1n8gkwk4@meldstar.com> <20060516205138.35697.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40c95ef00605161417y15d89c4aj51318908c276bf02@mail.gmail.com> Re: database - Surveymonkey.com is your friend. It saves all your stuff and I think its pretty cheap to get the advanced features. Lets schedule a meeting to discuss this stuff. I'd like to pass it thru the local SIG as well, but we already have an agenda for our local meeting tomorrow. So maybe next meeting (June 5th) for that. Anyway when is a good time to chat? Michael On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > I personally like the mean/median idea. It allows us to allow for a > comprimise on the deffinition of the term and can also help spur some > support on the matter. I think winging it would be a bit of a mistake If we > are wanting to take a more formal approach to the matter. I would like to > see this sort of thing be a reccuring report on behalf of the SIG to show > where we are going and where we want to be. The "What's Next" of indie. > > > "Christopher S. Charabaruk" wrote: > > This is why I keep bringing up our definition of an indie every business > meeting, too. Our term could be too strict (a five person garage team who > got a deal to have their game on Steam could be ruled out) while > traditional thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more than > self-publish). > > While it'd probably make things even more complicated, though, it might be > interesting to take all this into account, by asking developers if they > believe they are independent (yes/no question) followed by their own > definition of indie or their reasoning for their decision (a nice essay > question, just like killed me in communications classes). Then, at the > report stage, we use all that information to determine a mean or median > definition, based on what everyone said. > > Or, for the sake of my sanity, whose grasp is tenuous as it is, that can > wait for next year's report. > > Certainly, we need to rework the definition prior to conducting the surveys > and writing the report. But how do we change the definition to let in the > former example while denying the latter? > > Personally, I think that the word 'formal' has much to do with the > uncertainty around what is indie or not. Someone (probably myself) could > write an entire essay for the SIG site just on the definition alone to try > and clarify matters, but chances are it'd only make things muddier. > > I think this time around, we might just be able to get away winging it, with > a few happy little disclaimers before anyone's allowed to take the surveys. > I'd like to hear your thoughts on improving the definition we use, though. > > -- > Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk > Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation? > > > > At Tue 16 May 2006 02:46:17 PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" > said: > > > This sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and > > resources to put into it because it looks to be a real time hog, > > especially the surveys. But they would be a great contribution. > > > > I think on thing you need to do is establish a clear delineation of > > what an indie is for purposes of the white paper. Although I do not > > think you consider id and Valve to be within the ambit of this work, > > they are for sure independent studios. So some thought will need to > > go into your target audience in the process. You may want to > > consider the casual games mail list as a possible source for > > additional independents. > > > > Good luck and let me know if you need any help. > > > > Tom B > > > > At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > >> This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we > never > >> got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged by the > SIG > >> showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie "industry". To help > with > >> writing the report, there would be a couple surveys as well -- one big > >> survey for gathering gross statistics, and some stages of interviews with > >> selected (or lotteried) participants of the big survey for finer details. > >> > >> I'm already claiming this as my baby, but it'd be great for others (even > >> those not officially helping manage the SIG) to join this project so that > >> I'm not a committee of one. > >> > >> Any support? > >> > >> -- > >> Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk > >> Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation? > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> indies mailing list > >> indies@igda.org > >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > > The Game Attorney > > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > > 80 Southwest 8th Street > > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center > > Miami, FL 33130 > > Tel (305) 324-6000 > > Fax (305) 324-1111 > > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > > > > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the > > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication > > from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading > > it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at > > thb@intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > Thank you, > Raymond Chandler III > Independant Game Developer > www.avengersoft.com > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > www.igda.org/indie > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > From animegalore1985 at yahoo.com Tue May 16 18:23:52 2006 From: animegalore1985 at yahoo.com (Raymond Chandler) Date: Tue May 16 18:23:54 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <40c95ef00605161417y15d89c4aj51318908c276bf02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060516222352.891.qmail@web54409.mail.yahoo.com> I am available MWF 5 to 9pm EST. C Ratchet wrote: Re: database - Surveymonkey.com is your friend. It saves all your stuff and I think its pretty cheap to get the advanced features. Lets schedule a meeting to discuss this stuff. I'd like to pass it thru the local SIG as well, but we already have an agenda for our local meeting tomorrow. So maybe next meeting (June 5th) for that. Anyway when is a good time to chat? Michael On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > I personally like the mean/median idea. It allows us to allow for a > comprimise on the deffinition of the term and can also help spur some > support on the matter. I think winging it would be a bit of a mistake If we > are wanting to take a more formal approach to the matter. I would like to > see this sort of thing be a reccuring report on behalf of the SIG to show > where we are going and where we want to be. The "What's Next" of indie. > > > "Christopher S. Charabaruk" wrote: > > This is why I keep bringing up our definition of an indie every business > meeting, too. Our term could be too strict (a five person garage team who > got a deal to have their game on Steam could be ruled out) while > traditional thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more than > self-publish). > > While it'd probably make things even more complicated, though, it might be > interesting to take all this into account, by asking developers if they > believe they are independent (yes/no question) followed by their own > definition of indie or their reasoning for their decision (a nice essay > question, just like killed me in communications classes). Then, at the > report stage, we use all that information to determine a mean or median > definition, based on what everyone said. > > Or, for the sake of my sanity, whose grasp is tenuous as it is, that can > wait for next year's report. > > Certainly, we need to rework the definition prior to conducting the surveys > and writing the report. But how do we change the definition to let in the > former example while denying the latter? > > Personally, I think that the word 'formal' has much to do with the > uncertainty around what is indie or not. Someone (probably myself) could > write an entire essay for the SIG site just on the definition alone to try > and clarify matters, but chances are it'd only make things muddier. > > I think this time around, we might just be able to get away winging it, with > a few happy little disclaimers before anyone's allowed to take the surveys. > I'd like to hear your thoughts on improving the definition we use, though. > > -- > Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk > Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation??? > > > > At Tue 16 May 2006 02:46:17 PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" > said: > > > This sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and > > resources to put into it because it looks to be a real time hog, > > especially the surveys. But they would be a great contribution. > > > > I think on thing you need to do is establish a clear delineation of > > what an indie is for purposes of the white paper. Although I do not > > think you consider id and Valve to be within the ambit of this work, > > they are for sure independent studios. So some thought will need to > > go into your target audience in the process. You may want to > > consider the casual games mail list as a possible source for > > additional independents. > > > > Good luck and let me know if you need any help. > > > > Tom B > > > > At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > >> This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we > never > >> got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged by the > SIG > >> showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie "industry". To help > with > >> writing the report, there would be a couple surveys as well -- one big > >> survey for gathering gross statistics, and some stages of interviews with > >> selected (or lotteried) participants of the big survey for finer details. > >> > >> I'm already claiming this as my baby, but it'd be great for others (even > >> those not officially helping manage the SIG) to join this project so that > >> I'm not a committee of one. > >> > >> Any support? > >> > >> -- > >> Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk > >> Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation?? > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> indies mailing list > >> indies@igda.org > >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > ?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > > The Game Attorney > > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > > 80 Southwest 8th Street > > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center > > Miami, FL 33130 > > Tel (305) 324-6000 > > Fax (305) 324-1111 > > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > ?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > > > > > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the > > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication > > from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading > > it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at > > thb@intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > Thank you, > Raymond Chandler III > Independant Game Developer > www.avengersoft.com > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > www.igda.org/indie > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > _______________________________________________ indies mailing list indies@igda.org http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies Thank you, Raymond Chandler III Independant Game Developer www.avengersoft.com IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster www.igda.org/indie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://four.pairlist.net/pipermail/indies/attachments/20060516/b1674a50/attachment.html From zratchet at gmail.com Tue May 16 18:26:57 2006 From: zratchet at gmail.com (C Ratchet) Date: Tue May 16 18:27:00 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <20060516222352.891.qmail@web54409.mail.yahoo.com> References: <40c95ef00605161417y15d89c4aj51318908c276bf02@mail.gmail.com> <20060516222352.891.qmail@web54409.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40c95ef00605161526g684bb7afl8f6031cf737cd010@mail.gmail.com> Friday could work this week, any of those next 2 weeks. Michael On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > I am available MWF 5 to 9pm EST. > > > C Ratchet wrote: > > Re: database - Surveymonkey.com is your friend. It saves all your > stuff and I think its pretty cheap to get the advanced features. > > Lets schedule a meeting to discuss this stuff. I'd like to pass it > thru the local SIG as well, but we already have an agenda for our > local meeting tomorrow. So maybe next meeting (June 5th) for that. > Anyway when is a good time to chat? > > Michael > > On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > > I personally like the mean/median idea. It allows us to allow for a > > comprimise on the deffinition of the term and can also help spur some > > support on the matter. I think winging it would be a bit of a mistake If > we > > are wanting to take a more formal approach to the matter. I would like to > > see this sort of thing be a reccuring report on behalf of the SIG to show > > where we are going and where we want to be. The "What's Next" of indie. > > > > > > "Christopher S. Charabaruk" wrote: > > > > This is why I keep bringing up our definition of an indie every business > > meeting, too. Our term could be too strict (a five person garage team who > > got a deal to have their game on Steam could be ruled out) while > > traditional thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more than > > self-publish). > > > > While it'd probably make things even more complicated, though, it might be > > interesting to take all this into account, by asking developers if they > > believe they are independent (yes/no question) followed by their own > > definition of indie or their reasoning for their decision (a nice essay > > question, just like killed me in communications classes). Then, at the > > report stage, we use all that information to determine a mean or median > > definition, based on what everyone said. > > > > Or, for the sake of my sanity, whose grasp is tenuous as it is, that can > > wait for next year's report. > > > > Certainly, we need to rework the definition prior to conducting the > surveys > > and writing the report. But how do we change the definition to let in the > > former example while denying the latter? > > > > Personally, I think that the word 'formal' has much to do with the > > uncertainty around what is indie or not. Someone (probably myself) could > > write an entire essay for the SIG site just on the definition alone to try > > and clarify matters, but chances are it'd only make things muddier. > > > > I think this time around, we might just be able to get away winging it, > with > > a few happy little disclaimers before anyone's allowed to take the > surveys. > > I'd like to hear your thoughts on improving the definition we use, though. > > > > -- > > Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk > > Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation? > > > > > > > > At Tue 16 May 2006 02:46:17 PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" > > said: > > > > > This sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and > > > resources to put into it because it looks to be a real time hog, > > > especially the surveys. But they would be a great contribution. > > > > > > I think on thing you need to do is establish a clear delineation of > > > what an indie is for purposes of the white paper. Although I do not > > > think you consider id and Valve to be within the ambit of this work, > > > they are for sure independent studios. So some thought will need to > > > go into your target audience in the process. You may want to > > > consider the casual games mail list as a possible source for > > > additional independents. > > > > > > Good luck and let me know if you need any help. > > > > > > Tom B > > > > > > At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > > >> This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we > > never > > >> got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged by the > > SIG > > >> showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie "industry". To help > > with > > >> writing the report, there would be a couple surveys as well -- one big > > >> survey for gathering gross statistics, and some stages of interviews > with > > >> selected (or lotteried) participants of the big survey for finer > details. > > >> > > >> I'm already claiming this as my baby, but it'd be great for others > (even > > >> those not officially helping manage the SIG) to join this project so > that > > >> I'm not a committee of one. > > >> > > >> Any support? > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk > > >> Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation? > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> indies mailing list > > >> indies@igda.org > > >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > > > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > > > The Game Attorney > > > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > > > 80 Southwest 8th Street > > > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center > > > Miami, FL 33130 > > > Tel (305) 324-6000 > > > Fax (305) 324-1111 > > > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > > > > > > > > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the > > > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication > > > from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading > > > it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at > > > thb@intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > indies mailing list > > indies@igda.org > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > Raymond Chandler III > > Independant Game Developer > > www.avengersoft.com > > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > > www.igda.org/indie > > _______________________________________________ > > indies mailing list > > indies@igda.org > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > Thank you, > Raymond Chandler III > Independant Game Developer > www.avengersoft.com > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > www.igda.org/indie > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > From animegalore1985 at yahoo.com Tue May 16 18:31:15 2006 From: animegalore1985 at yahoo.com (Raymond Chandler) Date: Tue May 16 18:31:17 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <40c95ef00605161526g684bb7afl8f6031cf737cd010@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060516223115.10494.qmail@web54413.mail.yahoo.com> I can do friday but I rather not... kinda my recreational day but if its the best time for everyone else, I can deffinitely do friday. C Ratchet wrote: Friday could work this week, any of those next 2 weeks. Michael On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > I am available MWF 5 to 9pm EST. > > > C Ratchet wrote: > > Re: database - Surveymonkey.com is your friend. It saves all your > stuff and I think its pretty cheap to get the advanced features. > > Lets schedule a meeting to discuss this stuff. I'd like to pass it > thru the local SIG as well, but we already have an agenda for our > local meeting tomorrow. So maybe next meeting (June 5th) for that. > Anyway when is a good time to chat? > > Michael > > On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > > I personally like the mean/median idea. It allows us to allow for a > > comprimise on the deffinition of the term and can also help spur some > > support on the matter. I think winging it would be a bit of a mistake If > we > > are wanting to take a more formal approach to the matter. I would like to > > see this sort of thing be a reccuring report on behalf of the SIG to show > > where we are going and where we want to be. The "What's Next" of indie. > > > > > > "Christopher S. Charabaruk" wrote: > > > > This is why I keep bringing up our definition of an indie every business > > meeting, too. Our term could be too strict (a five person garage team who > > got a deal to have their game on Steam could be ruled out) while > > traditional thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more than > > self-publish). > > > > While it'd probably make things even more complicated, though, it might be > > interesting to take all this into account, by asking developers if they > > believe they are independent (yes/no question) followed by their own > > definition of indie or their reasoning for their decision (a nice essay > > question, just like killed me in communications classes). Then, at the > > report stage, we use all that information to determine a mean or median > > definition, based on what everyone said. > > > > Or, for the sake of my sanity, whose grasp is tenuous as it is, that can > > wait for next year's report. > > > > Certainly, we need to rework the definition prior to conducting the > surveys > > and writing the report. But how do we change the definition to let in the > > former example while denying the latter? > > > > Personally, I think that the word 'formal' has much to do with the > > uncertainty around what is indie or not. Someone (probably myself) could > > write an entire essay for the SIG site just on the definition alone to try > > and clarify matters, but chances are it'd only make things muddier. > > > > I think this time around, we might just be able to get away winging it, > with > > a few happy little disclaimers before anyone's allowed to take the > surveys. > > I'd like to hear your thoughts on improving the definition we use, though. > > > > -- > > Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk > > Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation??? > > > > > > > > At Tue 16 May 2006 02:46:17 PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" > > said: > > > > > This sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and > > > resources to put into it because it looks to be a real time hog, > > > especially the surveys. But they would be a great contribution. > > > > > > I think on thing you need to do is establish a clear delineation of > > > what an indie is for purposes of the white paper. Although I do not > > > think you consider id and Valve to be within the ambit of this work, > > > they are for sure independent studios. So some thought will need to > > > go into your target audience in the process. You may want to > > > consider the casual games mail list as a possible source for > > > additional independents. > > > > > > Good luck and let me know if you need any help. > > > > > > Tom B > > > > > > At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > > >> This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we > > never > > >> got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged by the > > SIG > > >> showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie "industry". To help > > with > > >> writing the report, there would be a couple surveys as well -- one big > > >> survey for gathering gross statistics, and some stages of interviews > with > > >> selected (or lotteried) participants of the big survey for finer > details. > > >> > > >> I'm already claiming this as my baby, but it'd be great for others > (even > > >> those not officially helping manage the SIG) to join this project so > that > > >> I'm not a committee of one. > > >> > > >> Any support? > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk > > >> Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation?? > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> indies mailing list > > >> indies@igda.org > > >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > > > ?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > > > > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > > > The Game Attorney > > > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > > > 80 Southwest 8th Street > > > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center > > > Miami, FL 33130 > > > Tel (305) 324-6000 > > > Fax (305) 324-1111 > > > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > > ?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > > > > > > > > > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the > > > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication > > > from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading > > > it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at > > > thb@intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > indies mailing list > > indies@igda.org > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > Raymond Chandler III > > Independant Game Developer > > www.avengersoft.com > > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > > www.igda.org/indie > > _______________________________________________ > > indies mailing list > > indies@igda.org > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > Thank you, > Raymond Chandler III > Independant Game Developer > www.avengersoft.com > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > www.igda.org/indie > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > _______________________________________________ indies mailing list indies@igda.org http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://four.pairlist.net/pipermail/indies/attachments/20060516/ceab3bd7/attachment.html From zratchet at gmail.com Tue May 16 18:35:24 2006 From: zratchet at gmail.com (C Ratchet) Date: Tue May 16 18:35:30 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <20060516223115.10494.qmail@web54413.mail.yahoo.com> References: <40c95ef00605161526g684bb7afl8f6031cf737cd010@mail.gmail.com> <20060516223115.10494.qmail@web54413.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40c95ef00605161535t29cb3488qe6972e7d6f06305f@mail.gmail.com> Waiting on Chris etc... Michael On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > I can do friday but I rather not... kinda my recreational day but if its the > best time for everyone else, I can deffinitely do friday. > > > C Ratchet wrote: > > Friday could work this week, any of those next 2 weeks. > > Michael > > On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > > I am available MWF 5 to 9pm EST. > > > > > > C Ratchet wrote: > > > > Re: database - Surveymonkey.com is your friend. It saves all your > > stuff and I think its pretty cheap to get the advanced features. > > > > Lets schedule a meeting to discuss this stuff. I'd like to pass it > > thru the local SIG as well, but we already have an agenda for our > > local meeting tomorrow. So maybe next meeting (June 5th) for that. > > Anyway when is a good time to chat? > > > > Michael > > > > On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > > > I personally like the mean/median idea. It allows us to allow for a > > > comprimise on the deffinition of the term and can also help spur some > > > support on the matter. I think winging it would be a bit of a mistake If > > we > > > are wanting to take a more formal approach to the matter. I would like > to > > > see this sort of thing be a reccuring report on behalf of the SIG to > show > > > where we are going and where we want to be. The "What's Next" of indie. > > > > > > > > > "Christopher S. Charabaruk" wrote: > > > > > > This is why I keep bringing up our definition of an indie every business > > > meeting, too. Our term could be too strict (a five person garage team > who > > > got a deal to have their game on Steam could be ruled out) while > > > traditional thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more than > > > self-publish). > > > > > > While it'd probably make things even more complicated, though, it might > be > > > interesting to take all this into account, by asking developers if they > > > believe they are independent (yes/no question) followed by their own > > > definition of indie or their reasoning for their decision (a nice essay > > > question, just like killed me in communications classes). Then, at the > > > report stage, we use all that information to determine a mean or median > > > definition, based on what everyone said. > > > > > > Or, for the sake of my sanity, whose grasp is tenuous as it is, that can > > > wait for next year's report. > > > > > > Certainly, we need to rework the definition prior to conducting the > > surveys > > > and writing the report. But how do we change the definition to let in > the > > > former example while denying the latter? > > > > > > Personally, I think that the word 'formal' has much to do with the > > > uncertainty around what is indie or not. Someone (probably myself) could > > > write an entire essay for the SIG site just on the definition alone to > try > > > and clarify matters, but chances are it'd only make things muddier. > > > > > > I think this time around, we might just be able to get away winging it, > > with > > > a few happy little disclaimers before anyone's allowed to take the > > surveys. > > > I'd like to hear your thoughts on improving the definition we use, > though. > > > > > > -- > > > Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk > > > Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation? > > > > > > > > > > > > At Tue 16 May 2006 02:46:17 PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" > > > said: > > > > > > > This sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and > > > > resources to put into it because it looks to be a real time hog, > > > > especially the surveys. But they would be a great contribution. > > > > > > > > I think on thing you need to do is establish a clear delineation of > > > > what an indie is for purposes of the white paper. Although I do not > > > > think you consider id and Valve to be within the ambit of this work, > > > > they are for sure independent studios. So some thought will need to > > > > go into your target audience in the process. You may want to > > > > consider the casual games mail list as a possible source for > > > > additional independents. > > > > > > > > Good luck and let me know if you need any help. > > > > > > > > Tom B > > > > > > > > At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > > > >> This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we > > > never > > > >> got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged by > the > > > SIG > > > >> showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie "industry". To help > > > with > > > >> writing the report, there would be a couple surveys as well -- one > big > > > >> survey for gathering gross statistics, and some stages of interviews > > with > > > >> selected (or lotteried) participants of the big survey for finer > > details. > > > >> > > > >> I'm already claiming this as my baby, but it'd be great for others > > (even > > > >> those not officially helping manage the SIG) to join this project so > > that > > > >> I'm not a committee of one. > > > >> > > > >> Any support? > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk > > > >> Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation? > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> indies mailing list > > > >> indies@igda.org > > > >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > > > > > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > > > > > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > > > > The Game Attorney > > > > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > > > > 80 Southwest 8th Street > > > > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center > > > > Miami, FL 33130 > > > > Tel (305) 324-6000 > > > > Fax (305) 324-1111 > > > > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the > > > > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication > > > > from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading > > > > it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at > > > > thb@intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > indies mailing list > > > indies@igda.org > > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Raymond Chandler III > > > Independant Game Developer > > > www.avengersoft.com > > > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > > > www.igda.org/indie > > > _______________________________________________ > > > indies mailing list > > > indies@igda.org > > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > indies mailing list > > indies@igda.org > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > Raymond Chandler III > > Independant Game Developer > > www.avengersoft.com > > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > > www.igda.org/indie > > _______________________________________________ > > indies mailing list > > indies@igda.org > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > From thb at gameattorney.com Tue May 16 21:02:45 2006 From: thb at gameattorney.com (Thomas H. Buscaglia) Date: Tue May 16 21:04:54 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <40c95ef00605161417y15d89c4aj51318908c276bf02@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20060516162150.mak0u0sx1n8gkwk4@meldstar.com> <20060516205138.35697.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> <40c95ef00605161417y15d89c4aj51318908c276bf02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060516210222.0a9d7390@gameattorney.com> What is this supposed to be? At 05:17 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: >Re: database - Surveymonkey.com is your friend. >It saves all your stuff and I think its pretty >cheap to get the advanced features. Lets >schedule a meeting to discuss this stuff. I'd >like to pass it thru the local SIG as well, but >we already have an agenda for our local meeting >tomorrow. So maybe next meeting (June 5th) for >that. Anyway when is a good time to chat? >Michael On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler > wrote: > I >personally like the mean/median idea. It allows >us to allow for a > comprimise on the >deffinition of the term and can also help spur >some > support on the matter. I think winging it >would be a bit of a mistake If we > are wanting >to take a more formal approach to the matter. I >would like to > see this sort of thing be a >reccuring report on behalf of the SIG to show > >where we are going and where we want to be. The >"What's Next" of indie. > > > "Christopher S. >Charabaruk" >wrote: > > This is why I keep bringing up our >definition of an indie every business > meeting, >too. Our term could be too strict (a five person >garage team who > got a deal to have their game >on Steam could be ruled out) while > traditional >thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more >than > self-publish). > > While it'd probably >make things even more complicated, though, it >might be > interesting to take all this into >account, by asking developers if they > believe >they are independent (yes/no question) followed >by their own > definition of indie or their >reasoning for their decision (a nice essay > >question, just like killed me in communications >classes). Then, at the > report stage, we use >all that information to determine a mean or >median > definition, based on what everyone >said. > > Or, for the sake of my sanity, whose >grasp is tenuous as it is, that can > wait for >next year's report. > > Certainly, we need to >rework the definition prior to conducting the >surveys > and writing the report. But how do we >change the definition to let in the > former >example while denying the latter? > > >Personally, I think that the word 'formal' has >much to do with the > uncertainty around what is >indie or not. Someone (probably myself) could > >write an entire essay for the SIG site just on >the definition alone to try > and clarify >matters, but chances are it'd only make things >muddier. > > I think this time around, we might >just be able to get away winging it, with > a >few happy little disclaimers before anyone's >allowed to take the surveys. > I'd like to hear >your thoughts on improving the definition we >use, though. > > -- > Christopher S. 'coldacid' >Charabaruk > Meldstar Entertainment -- >Creation??? > > > > At Tue 16 May 2006 02:46:17 >PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" > said: > > > >This sounds like a great idea. I hope you have >the time and > > resources to put into it >because it looks to be a real time hog, > > >especially the surveys. But they would be a >great contribution. > > > > I think on thing you >need to do is establish a clear delineation >of > > what an indie is for purposes of the >white paper. Although I do not > > think you >consider id and Valve to be within the ambit of >this work, > > they are for sure independent >studios. So some thought will need to > > go >into your target audience in the process. You >may want to > > consider the casual games mail >list as a possible source for > > additional >independents. > > > > Good luck and let me know >if you need any help. > > > > Tom B > > > > At >01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > >> This is >something I wanted to bring up in meeting a >while ago, but we > never > >> got to it. State >of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged >by the > SIG > >> showing the ups, downs, and >sideways of the indie "industry". To help > >with > >> writing the report, there would be a >couple surveys as well -- one big > >> survey >for gathering gross statistics, and some stages >of interviews with > >> selected (or lotteried) >participants of the big survey for finer >details. > >> > >> I'm already claiming this as >my baby, but it'd be great for others (even > >> >those not officially helping manage the SIG) to >join this project so that > >> I'm not a >committee of one. > >> > >> Any >support? > >> > >> -- > >> Christopher S. >'coldacid' Charabaruk > >> Meldstar >Entertainment -- >Creation?? > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ > > >> indies mailing list > >> >indies@igda.org > >> >http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > >?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > > > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > > The Game >Attorney > > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > > >80 Southwest 8th Street > > Suite 2100 - >Brickell Bayview Center > > Miami, FL 33130 > > >Tel (305) 324-6000 > > Fax (305) 324-1111 > > >Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > >http://www.gameattorney.com > > >?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > > > > > > > > Confidential: This email contains >communications protected by the > > >attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect >such a communication > > from Thomas H. >Buscaglia, please delete this message without >reading > > it or any attachment, and then >notify Mr. Buscaglia at > > thb@intelaw.com of >this inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > >http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > Thank you, > Raymond Chandler III > >Independant Game Developer > >www.avengersoft.com > IGDA Indie-SIG >Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > www.igda.org/indie > >_______________________________________________ > > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > >http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > >_______________________________________________ >indies mailing list >indies@igda.org >http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire The Game Attorney T. H. Buscaglia and Associates 80 Southwest 8th Street Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center Miami, FL 33130 Tel (305) 324-6000 Fax (305) 324-1111 Toll Free 888-848-GLAW http://www.gameattorney.com ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://four.pairlist.net/pipermail/indies/attachments/20060516/3a224f72/attachment.htm From zratchet at gmail.com Tue May 16 21:11:51 2006 From: zratchet at gmail.com (C Ratchet) Date: Tue May 16 21:11:54 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060516210222.0a9d7390@gameattorney.com> References: <20060516162150.mak0u0sx1n8gkwk4@meldstar.com> <20060516205138.35697.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> <40c95ef00605161417y15d89c4aj51318908c276bf02@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060516210222.0a9d7390@gameattorney.com> Message-ID: <40c95ef00605161811p4d6b6bebt6e604bca66b0290a@mail.gmail.com> Um... Chris mentioned needing a database and surveys - maybe I misread something... :p Michael On 5/16/06, Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote: > > What is this supposed to be? > > At 05:17 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > > Re: database - Surveymonkey.com is your friend. It saves all your stuff and > I think its pretty cheap to get the advanced features. Lets schedule a > meeting to discuss this stuff. I'd like to pass it thru the local SIG as > well, but we already have an agenda for our local meeting tomorrow. So maybe > next meeting (June 5th) for that. Anyway when is a good time to chat? > Michael On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > I > personally like the mean/median idea. It allows us to allow for a > > comprimise on the deffinition of the term and can also help spur some > > support on the matter. I think winging it would be a bit of a mistake If we > > are wanting to take a more formal approach to the matter. I would like to > > see this sort of thing be a reccuring report on behalf of the SIG to show > > where we are going and where we want to be. The "What's Next" of indie. > > > > "Christopher S. Charabaruk" wrote: > > This is > why I keep bringing up our definition of an indie every business > meeting, > too. Our term could be too strict (a five person garage team who > got a > deal to have their game on Steam could be ruled out) while > traditional > thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more than > self-publish). > > > While it'd probably make things even more complicated, though, it might be > > interesting to take all this into account, by asking developers if they > > believe they are independent (yes/no question) followed by their own > > definition of indie or their reasoning for their decision (a nice essay > > question, just like killed me in communications classes). Then, at the > > report stage, we use all that information to determine a mean or median > > definition, based on what everyone said. > > Or, for the sake of my sanity, > whose grasp is tenuous as it is, that can > wait for next year's report. > > > Certainly, we need to rework the definition prior to conducting the surveys > > and writing the report. But how do we change the definition to let in the > > former example while denying the latter? > > Personally, I think that the > word 'formal' has much to do with the > uncertainty around what is indie or > not. Someone (probably myself) could > write an entire essay for the SIG > site just on the definition alone to try > and clarify matters, but chances > are it'd only make things muddier. > > I think this time around, we might > just be able to get away winging it, with > a few happy little disclaimers > before anyone's allowed to take the surveys. > I'd like to hear your > thoughts on improving the definition we use, though. > > -- > Christopher S. > 'coldacid' Charabaruk > Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation??? > > > > At Tue > 16 May 2006 02:46:17 PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" > said: > > > This > sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and > > resources to put > into it because it looks to be a real time hog, > > especially the surveys. > But they would be a great contribution. > > > > I think on thing you need to > do is establish a clear delineation of > > what an indie is for purposes of > the white paper. Although I do not > > think you consider id and Valve to be > within the ambit of this work, > > they are for sure independent studios. So > some thought will need to > > go into your target audience in the process. > You may want to > > consider the casual games mail list as a possible source > for > > additional independents. > > > > Good luck and let me know if you > need any help. > > > > Tom B > > > > At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > >> > This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we > > never > >> got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged > by the > SIG > >> showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie > "industry". To help > with > >> writing the report, there would be a couple > surveys as well -- one big > >> survey for gathering gross statistics, and > some stages of interviews with > >> selected (or lotteried) participants of > the big survey for finer details. > >> > >> I'm already claiming this as my > baby, but it'd be great for others (even > >> those not officially helping > manage the SIG) to join this project so that > >> I'm not a committee of > one. > >> > >> Any support? > >> > >> -- > >> Christopher S. 'coldacid' > Charabaruk > >> Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation?? > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > indies mailing list > >> indies@igda.org > >> > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > > ?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > > > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > > The Game Attorney > > T. H. Buscaglia > and Associates > > 80 Southwest 8th Street > > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview > Center > > Miami, FL 33130 > > Tel (305) 324-6000 > > Fax (305) 324-1111 > > > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > > ?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > > > > > > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by > the > > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication > > > from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading > > > it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at > > thb@intelaw.com > of this inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies > mailing list > indies@igda.org > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > Thank you, > Raymond Chandler III > Independant Game Developer > > www.avengersoft.com > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > > www.igda.org/indie > > _______________________________________________ > indies > mailing list > indies@igda.org > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > The Game Attorney > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > 80 Southwest 8th Street > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center > Miami, FL 33130 > Tel (305) 324-6000 > Fax (305) 324-1111 > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from > Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any > attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this > inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > From thb at gameattorney.com Tue May 16 23:26:25 2006 From: thb at gameattorney.com (Thomas H. Buscaglia) Date: Tue May 16 23:26:30 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <40c95ef00605161811p4d6b6bebt6e604bca66b0290a@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20060516162150.mak0u0sx1n8gkwk4@meldstar.com> <20060516205138.35697.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> <40c95ef00605161417y15d89c4aj51318908c276bf02@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060516210222.0a9d7390@gameattorney.com> <40c95ef00605161811p4d6b6bebt6e604bca66b0290a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060516232545.0aa56458@gameattorney.com> Sorry Rachet...I meant the unreadable format...not the content. What's up wit dat? Tom B At 09:11 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: >Um... Chris mentioned needing a database and surveys - maybe I misread >something... :p > >Michael > >On 5/16/06, Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote: >> >> What is this supposed to be? >> >> At 05:17 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: >> >>Re: database - Surveymonkey.com is your friend. It saves all your stuff and >>I think its pretty cheap to get the advanced features. Lets schedule a >>meeting to discuss this stuff. I'd like to pass it thru the local SIG as >>well, but we already have an agenda for our local meeting tomorrow. So maybe >>next meeting (June 5th) for that. Anyway when is a good time to chat? >>Michael On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > I >>personally like the mean/median idea. It allows us to allow for a > >>comprimise on the deffinition of the term and can also help spur some > >>support on the matter. I think winging it would be a bit of a mistake If we >> > are wanting to take a more formal approach to the matter. I would like to >> > see this sort of thing be a reccuring report on behalf of the SIG to show >> > where we are going and where we want to be. The "What's Next" of indie. > >> > > "Christopher S. Charabaruk" wrote: > > This is >>why I keep bringing up our definition of an indie every business > meeting, >>too. Our term could be too strict (a five person garage team who > got a >>deal to have their game on Steam could be ruled out) while > traditional >>thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more than > self-publish). > > >>While it'd probably make things even more complicated, though, it might be > >>interesting to take all this into account, by asking developers if they > >>believe they are independent (yes/no question) followed by their own > >>definition of indie or their reasoning for their decision (a nice essay > >>question, just like killed me in communications classes). Then, at the > >>report stage, we use all that information to determine a mean or median > >>definition, based on what everyone said. > > Or, for the sake of my sanity, >>whose grasp is tenuous as it is, that can > wait for next year's report. > > >>Certainly, we need to rework the definition prior to conducting the surveys >> > and writing the report. But how do we change the definition to let in the >> > former example while denying the latter? > > Personally, I think that the >>word 'formal' has much to do with the > uncertainty around what is indie or >>not. Someone (probably myself) could > write an entire essay for the SIG >>site just on the definition alone to try > and clarify matters, but chances >>are it'd only make things muddier. > > I think this time around, we might >>just be able to get away winging it, with > a few happy little disclaimers >>before anyone's allowed to take the surveys. > I'd like to hear your >>thoughts on improving the definition we use, though. > > -- > Christopher S. >>'coldacid' Charabaruk > Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation??? > > > > At Tue >>16 May 2006 02:46:17 PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" > said: > > > This >>sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and > > resources to put >>into it because it looks to be a real time hog, > > especially the surveys. >>But they would be a great contribution. > > > > I think on thing you need to >>do is establish a clear delineation of > > what an indie is for purposes of >>the white paper. Although I do not > > think you consider id and Valve to be >>within the ambit of this work, > > they are for sure independent studios. So >>some thought will need to > > go into your target audience in the process. >>You may want to > > consider the casual games mail list as a possible source >>for > > additional independents. > > > > Good luck and let me know if you >>need any help. > > > > Tom B > > > > At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > >> >>This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we > >>never > >> got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged >>by the > SIG > >> showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie >>"industry". To help > with > >> writing the report, there would be a couple >>surveys as well -- one big > >> survey for gathering gross statistics, and >>some stages of interviews with > >> selected (or lotteried) participants of >>the big survey for finer details. > >> > >> I'm already claiming this as my >>baby, but it'd be great for others (even > >> those not officially helping >>manage the SIG) to join this project so that > >> I'm not a committee of >>one. > >> > >> Any support? > >> > >> -- > >> Christopher S. 'coldacid' >>Charabaruk > >> Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation?? > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>indies mailing list > >> indies@igda.org > >> >>http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > >> > >>?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? >> > > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > > The Game Attorney > > T. H. Buscaglia >>and Associates > > 80 Southwest 8th Street > > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview >>Center > > Miami, FL 33130 > > Tel (305) 324-6000 > > Fax (305) 324-1111 > > >>Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > >>?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? >> > > > > > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by >>the > > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication >> > > from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading > > >>it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at > > thb@intelaw.com >>of this inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > > >>_______________________________________________ > indies >>mailing list > indies@igda.org > >>http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > >>Thank you, > Raymond Chandler III > Independant Game Developer > >>www.avengersoft.com > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > >>www.igda.org/indie > >>_______________________________________________ > indies >>mailing list > indies@igda.org > >>http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> indies mailing list >> indies@igda.org >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies >> >> >> >>???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? >> >>Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire >> The Game Attorney >> T. H. Buscaglia and Associates >> 80 Southwest 8th Street >> Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center >> Miami, FL 33130 >> Tel (305) 324-6000 >> Fax (305) 324-1111 >> Toll Free 888-848-GLAW >> >> http://www.gameattorney.com >> >> ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? >> >> >>Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the >>attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from >>Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any >>attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this >>inadvertent misdelivery. >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>indies mailing list >>indies@igda.org >>http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies >> >> >_______________________________________________ >indies mailing list >indies@igda.org >http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire The Game Attorney T. H. Buscaglia and Associates 80 Southwest 8th Street Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center Miami, FL 33130 Tel (305) 324-6000 Fax (305) 324-1111 Toll Free 888-848-GLAW http://www.gameattorney.com ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://four.pairlist.net/pipermail/indies/attachments/20060516/bf4df6f6/attachment.htm From zratchet at gmail.com Tue May 16 23:33:31 2006 From: zratchet at gmail.com (C Ratchet) Date: Tue May 16 23:33:34 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060516232545.0aa56458@gameattorney.com> References: <20060516162150.mak0u0sx1n8gkwk4@meldstar.com> <20060516205138.35697.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> <40c95ef00605161417y15d89c4aj51318908c276bf02@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060516210222.0a9d7390@gameattorney.com> <40c95ef00605161811p4d6b6bebt6e604bca66b0290a@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060516232545.0aa56458@gameattorney.com> Message-ID: <40c95ef00605162033o190b288eife316dc4e5904725@mail.gmail.com> Not sure why it did that. Didn't do it in my outbox. Michael On 5/16/06, Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote: > > Sorry Rachet...I meant the unreadable format...not the content. What's up > wit dat? > > Tom B > > > > At 09:11 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > > Um... Chris mentioned needing a database and surveys - maybe I misread > something... :p > > Michael > > On 5/16/06, Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote: > > > What is this supposed to be? > > At 05:17 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > > Re: database - Surveymonkey.com is your friend. It saves all your stuff and > I think its pretty cheap to get the advanced features. Lets schedule a > meeting to discuss this stuff. I'd like to pass it thru the local SIG as > well, but we already have an agenda for our local meeting tomorrow. So > maybe > next meeting (June 5th) for that. Anyway when is a good time to chat? > Michael On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > I > personally like the mean/median idea. It allows us to allow for a > > comprimise on the deffinition of the term and can also help spur some > > support on the matter. I think winging it would be a bit of a mistake If we > > are wanting to take a more formal approach to the matter. I would like to > > see this sort of thing be a reccuring report on behalf of the SIG to show > > where we are going and where we want to be. The "What's Next" of indie. > > > > "Christopher S. Charabaruk" wrote: > > This is > why I keep bringing up our definition of an indie every business > meeting, > too. Our term could be too strict (a five person garage team who > got a > deal to have their game on Steam could be ruled out) while > traditional > thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more than > self-publish). > > > While it'd probably make things even more complicated, though, it might be > > > interesting to take all this into account, by asking developers if they > > believe they are independent (yes/no question) followed by their own > > definition of indie or their reasoning for their decision (a nice essay > > question, just like killed me in communications classes). Then, at the > > report stage, we use all that information to determine a mean or median > > definition, based on what everyone said. > > Or, for the sake of my sanity, > whose grasp is tenuous as it is, that can > wait for next year's report. > > > > Certainly, we need to rework the definition prior to conducting the surveys > > and writing the report. But how do we change the definition to let in the > > former example while denying the latter? > > Personally, I think that the > word 'formal' has much to do with the > uncertainty around what is indie or > not. Someone (probably myself) could > write an entire essay for the SIG > site just on the definition alone to try > and clarify matters, but chances > are it'd only make things muddier. > > I think this time around, we might > just be able to get away winging it, with > a few happy little disclaimers > before anyone's allowed to take the surveys. > I'd like to hear your > thoughts on improving the definition we use, though. > > -- > Christopher > S. > 'coldacid' Charabaruk > Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation??? > > > > At > Tue > 16 May 2006 02:46:17 PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" > said: > > > This > sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and > > resources to put > into it because it looks to be a real time hog, > > especially the surveys. > But they would be a great contribution. > > > > I think on thing you need > to > do is establish a clear delineation of > > what an indie is for purposes of > the white paper. Although I do not > > think you consider id and Valve to > be > within the ambit of this work, > > they are for sure independent studios. > So > some thought will need to > > go into your target audience in the process. > You may want to > > consider the casual games mail list as a possible > source > for > > additional independents. > > > > Good luck and let me know if you > need any help. > > > > Tom B > > > > At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > >> > This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we > > never > >> got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged > by the > SIG > >> showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie > "industry". To help > with > >> writing the report, there would be a couple > surveys as well -- one big > >> survey for gathering gross statistics, and > some stages of interviews with > >> selected (or lotteried) participants of > the big survey for finer details. > >> > >> I'm already claiming this as my > baby, but it'd be great for others (even > >> those not officially helping > manage the SIG) to join this project so that > >> I'm not a committee of > one. > >> > >> Any support? > >> > >> -- > >> Christopher S. 'coldacid' > Charabaruk > >> Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation?? > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > indies mailing list > >> indies@igda.org > >> > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > > ?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > > > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > > The Game Attorney > > T. H. > Buscaglia > and Associates > > 80 Southwest 8th Street > > Suite 2100 - Brickell > Bayview > Center > > Miami, FL 33130 > > Tel (305) 324-6000 > > Fax (305) 324-1111 > > > > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > > ?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > > > > > > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by > the > > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a > communication > > > from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading > > > > it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at > > thb@intelaw.com > of this inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies > mailing list > indies@igda.org > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > Thank you, > Raymond Chandler III > Independant Game Developer > > www.avengersoft.com > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > > www.igda.org/indie > > _______________________________________________ > indies > mailing list > indies@igda.org > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > The Game Attorney > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > 80 Southwest 8th Street > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center > Miami, FL 33130 > Tel (305) 324-6000 > Fax (305) 324-1111 > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from > Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any > attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this > inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > The Game Attorney > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > 80 Southwest 8th Street > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center > Miami, FL 33130 > Tel (305) 324-6000 > Fax (305) 324-1111 > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > http://www.gameattorney.com > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from > Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any > attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this > inadvertent misdelivery. > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > From thb at gameattorney.com Tue May 16 23:53:28 2006 From: thb at gameattorney.com (Thomas H. Buscaglia) Date: Wed May 17 00:12:16 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <40c95ef00605162033o190b288eife316dc4e5904725@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20060516162150.mak0u0sx1n8gkwk4@meldstar.com> <20060516205138.35697.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> <40c95ef00605161417y15d89c4aj51318908c276bf02@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060516210222.0a9d7390@gameattorney.com> <40c95ef00605161811p4d6b6bebt6e604bca66b0290a@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060516232545.0aa56458@gameattorney.com> <40c95ef00605162033o190b288eife316dc4e5904725@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060516235308.07886670@gameattorney.com> you using pine? ;-) At 11:33 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: >Not sure why it did that. Didn't do it in my outbox. > >Michael > >On 5/16/06, Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote: >> >> Sorry Rachet...I meant the unreadable format...not the content. What's up >>wit dat? >> >> Tom B >> >> >> >> At 09:11 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: >> >>Um... Chris mentioned needing a database and surveys - maybe I misread >> something... :p >> >> Michael >> >> On 5/16/06, Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote: >> >> >> What is this supposed to be? >> >> At 05:17 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: >> >> Re: database - Surveymonkey.com is your friend. It saves all your stuff and >> I think its pretty cheap to get the advanced features. Lets schedule a >> meeting to discuss this stuff. I'd like to pass it thru the local SIG as >> well, but we already have an agenda for our local meeting tomorrow. So >>maybe >> next meeting (June 5th) for that. Anyway when is a good time to chat? >> Michael On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > I >> personally like the mean/median idea. It allows us to allow for a > >> comprimise on the deffinition of the term and can also help spur some > >> support on the matter. I think winging it would be a bit of a mistake If we >> > are wanting to take a more formal approach to the matter. I would like to >> > see this sort of thing be a reccuring report on behalf of the SIG to show >> > where we are going and where we want to be. The "What's Next" of indie. > >> > > "Christopher S. Charabaruk" wrote: > > This is >> why I keep bringing up our definition of an indie every business > meeting, >> too. Our term could be too strict (a five person garage team who > got a >> deal to have their game on Steam could be ruled out) while > traditional >> thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more than > self-publish). > > >> While it'd probably make things even more complicated, though, it might be >> > >> interesting to take all this into account, by asking developers if they > >> believe they are independent (yes/no question) followed by their own > >> definition of indie or their reasoning for their decision (a nice essay > >> question, just like killed me in communications classes). Then, at the > >> report stage, we use all that information to determine a mean or median > >> definition, based on what everyone said. > > Or, for the sake of my sanity, >> whose grasp is tenuous as it is, that can > wait for next year's report. > >> > >> Certainly, we need to rework the definition prior to conducting the surveys >> > and writing the report. But how do we change the definition to let in the >> > former example while denying the latter? > > Personally, I think that the >> word 'formal' has much to do with the > uncertainty around what is indie or >> not. Someone (probably myself) could > write an entire essay for the SIG >> site just on the definition alone to try > and clarify matters, but chances >> are it'd only make things muddier. > > I think this time around, we might >> just be able to get away winging it, with > a few happy little disclaimers >> before anyone's allowed to take the surveys. > I'd like to hear your >> thoughts on improving the definition we use, though. > > -- > Christopher >>S. >> 'coldacid' Charabaruk > Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation??? > > > > At >>Tue >> 16 May 2006 02:46:17 PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" > said: > > > This >> sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and > > resources to put >> into it because it looks to be a real time hog, > > especially the surveys. >> But they would be a great contribution. > > > > I think on thing you need >>to >> do is establish a clear delineation of > > what an indie is for purposes of >> the white paper. Although I do not > > think you consider id and Valve to >>be >> within the ambit of this work, > > they are for sure independent studios. >>So >> some thought will need to > > go into your target audience in the process. >> You may want to > > consider the casual games mail list as a possible >>source >> for > > additional independents. > > > > Good luck and let me know if you >> need any help. > > > > Tom B > > > > At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > >> >> This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we > >> never > >> got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged >> by the > SIG > >> showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie >> "industry". To help > with > >> writing the report, there would be a couple >> surveys as well -- one big > >> survey for gathering gross statistics, and >> some stages of interviews with > >> selected (or lotteried) participants of >> the big survey for finer details. > >> > >> I'm already claiming this as my >> baby, but it'd be great for others (even > >> those not officially helping >> manage the SIG) to join this project so that > >> I'm not a committee of >> one. > >> > >> Any support? > >> > >> -- > >> Christopher S. 'coldacid' >> Charabaruk > >> Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation?? > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> indies mailing list > >> indies@igda.org > >> >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > >> > >>?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? >> > > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > > The Game Attorney > > T. H. >>Buscaglia >> and Associates > > 80 Southwest 8th Street > > Suite 2100 - Brickell >>Bayview >> Center > > Miami, FL 33130 > > Tel (305) 324-6000 > > Fax (305) 324-1111 > >> > >> Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > >>?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? >> > > > > > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by >> the > > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a >>communication >> > > from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading > >> > >> it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at > > thb@intelaw.com >> of this inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > indies >> mailing list > indies@igda.org > >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > >> Thank you, > Raymond Chandler III > Independant Game Developer > >> www.avengersoft.com > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > >> www.igda.org/indie > >> _______________________________________________ > indies >> mailing list > indies@igda.org > >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> indies mailing list >> indies@igda.org >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies >> >> >> >> ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? >> >> Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire >> The Game Attorney >> T. H. Buscaglia and Associates >> 80 Southwest 8th Street >> Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center >> Miami, FL 33130 >> Tel (305) 324-6000 >> Fax (305) 324-1111 >> Toll Free 888-848-GLAW >> >> http://www.gameattorney.com >> >> ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? >> >> >> Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the >> attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from >> Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any >> attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this >> inadvertent misdelivery. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> indies mailing list >> indies@igda.org >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> indies mailing list >> indies@igda.org >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies >> >> >> >> ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? >> Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire >> The Game Attorney >> T. H. Buscaglia and Associates >> 80 Southwest 8th Street >> Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center >> Miami, FL 33130 >> Tel (305) 324-6000 >> Fax (305) 324-1111 >> Toll Free 888-848-GLAW >> http://www.gameattorney.com >> ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? >> >> Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the >>attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from >>Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any >>attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this >>inadvertent misdelivery. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>indies mailing list >>indies@igda.org >>http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies >> >> >_______________________________________________ >indies mailing list >indies@igda.org >http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire The Game Attorney T. H. Buscaglia and Associates 80 Southwest 8th Street Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center Miami, FL 33130 Tel (305) 324-6000 Fax (305) 324-1111 Toll Free 888-848-GLAW http://www.gameattorney.com ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://four.pairlist.net/pipermail/indies/attachments/20060516/c97669c0/attachment.html From zratchet at gmail.com Wed May 17 00:13:44 2006 From: zratchet at gmail.com (C Ratchet) Date: Wed May 17 00:13:53 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060516235308.07886670@gameattorney.com> References: <20060516162150.mak0u0sx1n8gkwk4@meldstar.com> <20060516205138.35697.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> <40c95ef00605161417y15d89c4aj51318908c276bf02@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060516210222.0a9d7390@gameattorney.com> <40c95ef00605161811p4d6b6bebt6e604bca66b0290a@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060516232545.0aa56458@gameattorney.com> <40c95ef00605162033o190b288eife316dc4e5904725@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060516235308.07886670@gameattorney.com> Message-ID: <40c95ef00605162113u1fe5350ey9335cc4e2da79376@mail.gmail.com> Nope... gmail ... just a fluke I guess. Is it still doing it for you? Michael On 5/16/06, Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote: > > you using pine? ;-) > > > At 11:33 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > > Not sure why it did that. Didn't do it in my outbox. > > Michael > > On 5/16/06, Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote: > > > Sorry Rachet...I meant the unreadable format...not the content. What's up > wit dat? > > Tom B > > > > At 09:11 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > > Um... Chris mentioned needing a database and surveys - maybe I misread > something... :p > > Michael > > On 5/16/06, Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote: > > > What is this supposed to be? > > At 05:17 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > > Re: database - Surveymonkey.com is your friend. It saves all your stuff > and > I think its pretty cheap to get the advanced features. Lets schedule a > meeting to discuss this stuff. I'd like to pass it thru the local SIG as > well, but we already have an agenda for our local meeting tomorrow. So > maybe > next meeting (June 5th) for that. Anyway when is a good time to chat? > Michael On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > > I > personally like the mean/median idea. It allows us to allow for a > > comprimise on the deffinition of the term and can also help spur some > > support on the matter. I think winging it would be a bit of a mistake If > we > > are wanting to take a more formal approach to the matter. I would like > to > > see this sort of thing be a reccuring report on behalf of the SIG to > show > > where we are going and where we want to be. The "What's Next" of indie. > > > > > "Christopher S. Charabaruk" wrote: > > This is > why I keep bringing up our definition of an indie every business > > meeting, > too. Our term could be too strict (a five person garage team who > got a > deal to have their game on Steam could be ruled out) while > traditional > thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more than > self-publish). > > > While it'd probably make things even more complicated, though, it might be > > > interesting to take all this into account, by asking developers if they > > believe they are independent (yes/no question) followed by their own > > definition of indie or their reasoning for their decision (a nice essay > > question, just like killed me in communications classes). Then, at the > > report stage, we use all that information to determine a mean or median > > definition, based on what everyone said. > > Or, for the sake of my > sanity, > whose grasp is tenuous as it is, that can > wait for next year's report. > > > > Certainly, we need to rework the definition prior to conducting the > surveys > > and writing the report. But how do we change the definition to let in > the > > former example while denying the latter? > > Personally, I think that > the > word 'formal' has much to do with the > uncertainty around what is indie > or > not. Someone (probably myself) could > write an entire essay for the SIG > site just on the definition alone to try > and clarify matters, but > chances > are it'd only make things muddier. > > I think this time around, we might > just be able to get away winging it, with > a few happy little disclaimers > before anyone's allowed to take the surveys. > I'd like to hear your > thoughts on improving the definition we use, though. > > -- > Christopher > S. > 'coldacid' Charabaruk > Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation??? > > > > At > Tue > 16 May 2006 02:46:17 PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" > said: > > > This > sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and > > resources to > put > into it because it looks to be a real time hog, > > especially the > surveys. > But they would be a great contribution. > > > > I think on thing you need > to > do is establish a clear delineation of > > what an indie is for purposes > of > the white paper. Although I do not > > think you consider id and Valve to > be > within the ambit of this work, > > they are for sure independent studios. > So > some thought will need to > > go into your target audience in the process. > You may want to > > consider the casual games mail list as a possible > source > for > > additional independents. > > > > Good luck and let me know if you > need any help. > > > > Tom B > > > > At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > > >> > This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we > > never > >> got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged > by the > SIG > >> showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie > "industry". To help > with > >> writing the report, there would be a > couple > surveys as well -- one big > >> survey for gathering gross statistics, and > some stages of interviews with > >> selected (or lotteried) participants > of > the big survey for finer details. > >> > >> I'm already claiming this as > my > baby, but it'd be great for others (even > >> those not officially helping > manage the SIG) to join this project so that > >> I'm not a committee of > one. > >> > >> Any support? > >> > >> -- > >> Christopher S. 'coldacid' > Charabaruk > >> Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation?? > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > indies mailing list > >> indies@igda.org > >> > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > > > > ?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > > > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > > The Game Attorney > > T. H. > Buscaglia > and Associates > > 80 Southwest 8th Street > > Suite 2100 - Brickell > Bayview > Center > > Miami, FL 33130 > > Tel (305) 324-6000 > > Fax (305) 324-1111 > > > > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > > ?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? > > > > > > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected > by > the > > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a > communication > > > from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading > > > > it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at > > thb@intelaw.com > of this inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies > mailing list > indies@igda.org > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > Thank you, > Raymond Chandler III > Independant Game Developer > > www.avengersoft.com > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > > www.igda.org/indie > > _______________________________________________ > indies > mailing list > indies@igda.org > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > The Game Attorney > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > 80 Southwest 8th Street > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center > Miami, FL 33130 > Tel (305) 324-6000 > Fax (305) 324-1111 > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from > Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any > attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this > inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > The Game Attorney > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > 80 Southwest 8th Street > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center > Miami, FL 33130 > Tel (305) 324-6000 > Fax (305) 324-1111 > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > http://www.gameattorney.com > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from > Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any > attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this > inadvertent misdelivery. > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > The Game Attorney > T. H. Buscaglia and Associates > 80 Southwest 8th Street > Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center > Miami, FL 33130 > Tel (305) 324-6000 > Fax (305) 324-1111 > Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > http://www.gameattorney.com > ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from > Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any > attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this > inadvertent misdelivery. > > > _______________________________________________ > indies mailing list > indies@igda.org > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > From thb at gameattorney.com Wed May 17 10:08:14 2006 From: thb at gameattorney.com (Thomas H. Buscaglia) Date: Wed May 17 11:49:56 2006 Subject: [IGDA_indies] Re: State of the Indie In-Reply-To: <40c95ef00605162113u1fe5350ey9335cc4e2da79376@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20060516162150.mak0u0sx1n8gkwk4@meldstar.com> <20060516205138.35697.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> <40c95ef00605161417y15d89c4aj51318908c276bf02@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060516210222.0a9d7390@gameattorney.com> <40c95ef00605161811p4d6b6bebt6e604bca66b0290a@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060516232545.0aa56458@gameattorney.com> <40c95ef00605162033o190b288eife316dc4e5904725@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060516235308.07886670@gameattorney.com> <40c95ef00605162113u1fe5350ey9335cc4e2da79376@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060517100809.0a9a1a80@gameattorney.com> nope.... At 12:13 AM 5/17/2006, you wrote: >Nope... gmail ... just a fluke I guess. > >Is it still doing it for you? > >Michael > >On 5/16/06, Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote: >> >> you using pine? ;-) >> >> >> At 11:33 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: >> >>Not sure why it did that. Didn't do it in my outbox. >> >> Michael >> >> On 5/16/06, Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote: >> >> >> Sorry Rachet...I meant the unreadable format...not the content. What's up >> wit dat? >> >> Tom B >> >> >> >> At 09:11 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: >> >> Um... Chris mentioned needing a database and surveys - maybe I misread >> something... :p >> >> Michael >> >> On 5/16/06, Thomas H. Buscaglia wrote: >> >> >> What is this supposed to be? >> >> At 05:17 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: >> >> Re: database - Surveymonkey.com is your friend. It saves all your stuff >>and >> I think its pretty cheap to get the advanced features. Lets schedule a >> meeting to discuss this stuff. I'd like to pass it thru the local SIG as >> well, but we already have an agenda for our local meeting tomorrow. So >> maybe >> next meeting (June 5th) for that. Anyway when is a good time to chat? >> Michael On 5/16/06, Raymond Chandler wrote: > >>I >> personally like the mean/median idea. It allows us to allow for a > >> comprimise on the deffinition of the term and can also help spur some > >> support on the matter. I think winging it would be a bit of a mistake If >>we >> > are wanting to take a more formal approach to the matter. I would like >>to >> > see this sort of thing be a reccuring report on behalf of the SIG to >>show >> > where we are going and where we want to be. The "What's Next" of indie. >> > >> > > "Christopher S. Charabaruk" wrote: > > This is >> why I keep bringing up our definition of an indie every business > >>meeting, >> too. Our term could be too strict (a five person garage team who > got a >> deal to have their game on Steam could be ruled out) while > traditional >> thinking is generally too broad (Valve does more than > self-publish). > > >> While it'd probably make things even more complicated, though, it might be >> > >> interesting to take all this into account, by asking developers if they > >> believe they are independent (yes/no question) followed by their own > >> definition of indie or their reasoning for their decision (a nice essay > >> question, just like killed me in communications classes). Then, at the > >> report stage, we use all that information to determine a mean or median > >> definition, based on what everyone said. > > Or, for the sake of my >>sanity, >> whose grasp is tenuous as it is, that can > wait for next year's report. > >> > >> Certainly, we need to rework the definition prior to conducting the >>surveys >> > and writing the report. But how do we change the definition to let in >>the >> > former example while denying the latter? > > Personally, I think that >>the >> word 'formal' has much to do with the > uncertainty around what is indie >>or >> not. Someone (probably myself) could > write an entire essay for the SIG >> site just on the definition alone to try > and clarify matters, but >>chances >> are it'd only make things muddier. > > I think this time around, we might >> just be able to get away winging it, with > a few happy little disclaimers >> before anyone's allowed to take the surveys. > I'd like to hear your >> thoughts on improving the definition we use, though. > > -- > Christopher >> S. >> 'coldacid' Charabaruk > Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation??? > > > > At >> Tue >> 16 May 2006 02:46:17 PM EDT, "Thomas H. Buscaglia" > said: > > > This >> sounds like a great idea. I hope you have the time and > > resources to >>put >> into it because it looks to be a real time hog, > > especially the >>surveys. >> But they would be a great contribution. > > > > I think on thing you need >> to >> do is establish a clear delineation of > > what an indie is for purposes >>of >> the white paper. Although I do not > > think you consider id and Valve to >> be >> within the ambit of this work, > > they are for sure independent studios. >> So >> some thought will need to > > go into your target audience in the process. >> You may want to > > consider the casual games mail list as a possible >> source >> for > > additional independents. > > > > Good luck and let me know if you >> need any help. > > > > Tom B > > > > At 01:43 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote: > >> >> >> This is something I wanted to bring up in meeting a while ago, but we > >> never > >> got to it. State of the Indie would be a yearly report arranged >> by the > SIG > >> showing the ups, downs, and sideways of the indie >> "industry". To help > with > >> writing the report, there would be a >>couple >> surveys as well -- one big > >> survey for gathering gross statistics, and >> some stages of interviews with > >> selected (or lotteried) participants >>of >> the big survey for finer details. > >> > >> I'm already claiming this as >>my >> baby, but it'd be great for others (even > >> those not officially helping >> manage the SIG) to join this project so that > >> I'm not a committee of >> one. > >> > >> Any support? > >> > >> -- > >> Christopher S. 'coldacid' >> Charabaruk > >> Meldstar Entertainment -- Creation?? > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> indies mailing list > >> indies@igda.org > >> >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > >> > >> > >>?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? >> > > > Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire > > The Game Attorney > > T. H. >> Buscaglia >> and Associates > > 80 Southwest 8th Street > > Suite 2100 - Brickell >> Bayview >> Center > > Miami, FL 33130 > > Tel (305) 324-6000 > > Fax (305) 324-1111 > >> > >> Toll Free 888-848-GLAW > > http://www.gameattorney.com > > >>?????????`?????????,??????,?????????`??????????????????`?????????,??????,?????????`????????? >> > > > > > > > Confidential: This email contains communications protected >>by >> the > > attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a >> communication >> > > from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading > >> > >> it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at > > thb@intelaw.com >> of this inadvertent misdelivery. > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > indies >> mailing list > indies@igda.org > >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > > >> Thank you, > Raymond Chandler III > Independant Game Developer > >> www.avengersoft.com > IGDA Indie-SIG Co-Coordinater/Webmaster > >> www.igda.org/indie > >> _______________________________________________ > indies >> mailing list > indies@igda.org > >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies > > > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> indies mailing list >> indies@igda.org >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies >> >> >> >> ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? >> >> Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire >> The Game Attorney >> T. H. Buscaglia and Associates >> 80 Southwest 8th Street >> Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center >> Miami, FL 33130 >> Tel (305) 324-6000 >> Fax (305) 324-1111 >> Toll Free 888-848-GLAW >> >> http://www.gameattorney.com >> >> ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? >> >> >> Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the >> attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from >> Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any >> attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this >> inadvertent misdelivery. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> indies mailing list >> indies@igda.org >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> indies mailing list >> indies@igda.org >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies >> >> >> >> ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? >> Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire >> The Game Attorney >> T. H. Buscaglia and Associates >> 80 Southwest 8th Street >> Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center >> Miami, FL 33130 >> Tel (305) 324-6000 >> Fax (305) 324-1111 >> Toll Free 888-848-GLAW >> http://www.gameattorney.com >> ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? >> >> Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the >> attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from >> Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any >> attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this >> inadvertent misdelivery. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> indies mailing list >> indies@igda.org >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> indies mailing list >> indies@igda.org >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies >> >> >> >> ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? >> Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire >> The Game Attorney >> T. H. Buscaglia and Associates >> 80 Southwest 8th Street >> Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center >> Miami, FL 33130 >> Tel (305) 324-6000 >> Fax (305) 324-1111 >> Toll Free 888-848-GLAW >> http://www.gameattorney.com >> ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? >> >> Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the >>attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from >>Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any >>attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this >>inadvertent misdelivery. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>indies mailing list >>indies@igda.org >>http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies >> >> >_______________________________________________ >indies mailing list >indies@igda.org >http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/indies ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Thomas H. Buscaglia, Esquire The Game Attorney T. H. Buscaglia and Associates 80 Southwest 8th Street Suite 2100 - Brickell Bayview Center Miami, FL 33130 Tel (305) 324-6000 Fax (305) 324-1111 Toll Free 888-848-GLAW http://www.gameattorney.com ???`???,??,???`??????`???,??,???`??? Confidential: This email contains communications protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you do not expect such a communication from Thomas H. Buscaglia, please delete this message without reading it or any attachment, and then notify Mr. Buscaglia at thb@intelaw.com of this inadvertent misdelivery. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://four.pairlist.net/pipermail/indies/attachments/20060517/d5ceb53a/attachment.htm