[LTPC-discussions] RE: [LTPC-discussions]Cendant Has Won It all over even the shouting, not even a whimper.
Hugh&Elke
ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com
Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:13:38 -0400
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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My vote goes to the dead horse.
I don't mind some levity, but some folks just took this whole thing as a =
marketing scam opportunity. I do NOT need a lawyer on retainer, I know =
how to get one as he crosses the street. I also don't appreciate some =
zipper-head signing me up for a newsletter that sells Jesus-trinkets on =
the side, that really got my biblical goat! Anyone wanting the Holy =
Grail, please contact me for the deluxe weather-proof plastic version.
Please take me off the list, the whining reminds me of my ex.
Hugh
----- Original Message -----=20
From: William C. Walters=20
To: ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 22:38
Subject: [LTPC-discussions] RE: [LTPC-discussions]Cendant Has Won It all =
over even the shouting, not even a whimper.
David,
I really wanted to be wrong about Cendant winning but it looks like they =
have. This forum has been a place for former LTPCers to engage in a =
dialouge, let off steam and vent their anger for being deviously =
exploited by Cendant, but it looks like it has turned out to be no more =
than that. The initial dialogue had some serious critiques and reports =
and there appeared to be a group resolve to take organize action against =
Cendant in the pursuit of justice. But the forum has degenerated into a =
billboard for the promotion of non-related stuff and email comics. It =
appears to be all over even the shouting, there is not even a whimper.
There doesn=E2=80=99t appear to be any serious resolve to organize with =
one voice and come up with a group plan of action. We are totally =
dependent on Doug Burg, for information about what=E2=80=99s happening =
and assumed that he has a plan of action, which he may have, that will =
benefit us. Doug has done a great job in developing this forum but we =
do not have a clue as to what is happening and what our options for =
action are. Is Cendant providing the forum for us? If so that would =
raise some interesting questions. =20
We have heard the many charges, but what is the point of this back and =
forth communicating if we as a group are not willing to take action. =
There are several among us that would be willing to put in the time to =
see this through. =20
It may still be possible to resurrect the interest of enough of the =
group to come up with a plan. What needs to be done is to contact =
everyone on the list to find those that are willing to make some sort of =
a commitment to gain concessions from Cendant. If we can generate =
enough people who are willing to make a commitment we can then develop =
an action plan.=20
Do you have any ideas? Is the fight over and am I beating a dead horse?
Bill Walters
From: ltpc-disc-admin@ltpcalums.com =
[mailto:ltpc-disc-admin@ltpcalums.com]On Behalf Of Ben Polis
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 6:30 PM
To: ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com
Subject: Re: [LTPC-discussions] UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE HAVE BEEN =
HAD
Bill is totally on target. We need a rallying point!!!!
----- Original Message -----=20
From: William C. Walters=20
To: ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 4:15 PM
Subject: [LTPC-discussions] UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE HAVE BEEN HAD
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE HAVE BEEN HAD
Cendant will win because they understand mob psychology and that =
time will generally dissipate the energy and resolve of a mob. Our mob =
is a disorganized group of aroused agents clamoring various complaints =
about what they perceive to be the wrongs that Progeny and the =
management team under Robert Foreman, committed against them. Each mob =
member has a complaint that they want to register and when their =
complaint is joined together with all the other unorganized voices you =
have a great din that will eventually dissipate because the members of =
the mob will tire, get discouraged and eventually give up. It is =
happening right now as we see members daily dropping from the mailing =
list. Cendant is counting on this happening, and they are smugly =
confidant that our DISORGANIZED NOISE will dissipate and that the =
members of the MOB will disband with their tails between their legs =
licking their wounds.
In Japan there is a room in every factory where there is an effigy =
of the boss or manager. When an employee becomes disgruntled with his =
boss he/she can go into the room and with a stick beat up the =
boss=E2=80=99s effigy dissipating his/her anger. This method seems to =
be very effective and the worker goes back to his job and the manager =
may never know that he has been savagely beaten in-absentcia. =20
This site can be no more than a place where the crowd can vent their =
anger, accept defeat and then go on to other things, without causing the =
perpetrators of their pain any discomfort.
OR
It can be a rallying point where we can become ORGANIZED and clearly =
state our grievances clearly and rationally. The grievances and =
violated principals involved should be agreed upon by all and presented =
to Cendant, by a chosen leader or potentially by a Class Action Attorney =
who may take the case on a contingency basis. The voice of a well =
organized group that is determined and willing to stay the course will =
get far better results than the cacophony of a mob of complainers. Of =
course we have to get on with our lives and do what we have to do, but =
we do not have to abandon our principals and bow our heads in submission =
to a ruthless system that has blatantly and shamelessly misused us. =20
At the risk of sounding trite to some I have to remind those who =
favor inaction that our country was founded upon principals and =
Americans have and are dying for those principals. =20
Here is a draft of the violations that Cendant has committed by not =
living up to in their stated and implied promises to us. The final list =
should contain a list of categories that are representative of our =
individual grievances.=20
1. Progeny lied to newly hired agents by misrepresenting the amount =
of activity it would take to achieve stated results; i.e.:=20
=EF=82=B7 The 15-10-50 formula=20
=EF=82=B7 The earnings to be expected from this activity=20
=EF=82=B7 The quality of the leads was misrepresented.=20
=EF=82=B7 The claim that we were not telemarketing. I question the =
core belief that we were not telemarketing because a very large =
percentage of the leads insisted that they did not request information.=20
=EF=82=B7 Promised that we would have the opportunity to earn our =
renewals, then denied us that opportunity.=20
=EF=82=B7 Promised follow-up training after our training in =
Tennessee, which they did not provide. =20
=EF=82=B7 Lying to us up the very end of our employment about the =
future opportunities of our employment with them when they knew well in =
advance that they were going to close the operation down. This lie was =
very costly to many agents especially the new ones who had to make a =
large personal, financial and emotional investment in the job as they =
were in hopes of securing their future with the promise of higher =
quality leads and their renewals.
To repeat, this is a draft (a starting point) of some of our =
collective grievances. Any or all of these grievances can be replaced =
with grievances that are agreed upon by the group. The final list must =
be the result of the input of all.
Our immediate challenge is to choose a leader such as Doug Burg or =
some other qualified person who was willing, able and committed to =
representing us in the pursuit of justice. There are those who are =
either ambivalent or indifferent in pursuing justice, perhaps because:=20
1. They do not feel that they were violated by an organization that =
under the guise of integrity lied and used them=20
2. They feel that we have a lost cause =20
3. They don=E2=80=99t want to be bothered=20
If your home was burglarized where valuable and personal items were =
stolen and you knew who the burglar was; Would they say, =
=E2=80=9Cthat=E2=80=99s life lets get on with it and forget that we were =
robbed=E2=80=9D or would you have the burglar arrested, brought to =
justice and recover some of your losses.
Let us have a show of hands to find out if we are the unorganized =
mob that Progeny is counting on or if we are or an organized group of =
agents in the pursuit of justice. Once we have a committed number of =
people we can decide on a plan of action.=20
This quote from Doug Burg is an appropriate conclusion to this =
message. =E2=80=9CThe bottom line is that Progeny does have certain =
responsibilities and we have certain rights. It is reasonable and fair =
to expect them to live up to those obligations.=E2=80=9D Doug Burg
=20
Bill Walters
williamwalters@verizon.net =20
-----Original Message-----
From: ltpc-disc-admin@ltpcalums.com =
[mailto:ltpc-disc-admin@ltpcalums.com]On Behalf Of AZSOLD@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 5:43 PM
To: ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com
Subject: Re: [LTPC-discussions] UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE HAVE BEEN =
HAD
amen
David Kropp
480-991-6599
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<DIV>My vote goes to the dead horse.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't mind some levity, but some folks just took this whole thing =
as a=20
marketing scam opportunity. I do NOT need a lawyer on retainer, I know =
how to=20
get one as he crosses the street. I also don't appreciate some =
zipper-head=20
signing me up for a newsletter that sells Jesus-trinkets on the side, =
that=20
really got my biblical goat! Anyone wanting the Holy Grail, please =
contact me=20
for the deluxe weather-proof plastic version.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Please take me off the list, the whining reminds me of my ex.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hugh</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Dwilliamwalters@verizon.net=20
href=3D"mailto:williamwalters@verizon.net">William C. Walters</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com=20
href=3D"mailto:ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com">ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 24, 2003 22:38</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [LTPC-discussions] RE: [LTPC-discussions]Cendant =
Has Won It=20
all over even the shouting, not even a whimper.</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D460372001-25062003><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT =
size=3D4><SPAN=20
class=3D180523502-25062003>David,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D460372001-25062003><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT =
size=3D4><SPAN=20
class=3D180523502-25062003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D460372001-25062003><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT =
size=3D4><SPAN=20
class=3D180523502-25062003></SPAN>I really wanted to be wrong about =
Cendant=20
winning but it looks like they have. This forum has been a place =
for=20
former LTPCers to engage in a dialouge, let off steam and vent their =
anger for=20
being deviously exploited by Cendant, but it looks like it has turned =
out to be=20
no more than that. The initial dialogue had some serious critiques =
and=20
reports and there appeared to be a group resolve to take organize action =
against=20
Cendant in the pursuit of justice. But the forum has degenerated =
into a=20
billboard for the promotion of non-related stuff and email =
comics. =20
It appears to be all over even the shouting, there is not even a=20
whimper.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D4><SPAN =
class=3D460372001-25062003>There doesn=E2=80=99t=20
appear to be any serious resolve to organize with one voice and come up =
with a=20
group plan of action. We are totally dependent on Doug Burg, for=20
information about what=E2=80=99s happening and assumed that he has a =
plan of action,=20
which he may have, that will benefit us. Doug has done a great job =
in=20
developing this forum but we do not have a clue as to what is happening =
and what=20
our options for action are. Is Cendant providing the forum =
for=20
us? If so that would raise some interesting questions. =
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D4><SPAN class=3D460372001-25062003>We =
have heard the=20
many charges, but what is the point of this back and forth communicating =
if we=20
as a group are not willing to take action. There are several among =
us that=20
would be willing to put in the time to see this through. =20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D4><SPAN class=3D460372001-25062003>It =
may still be=20
possible to resurrect the interest of enough of the group to come up =
with a=20
plan. What needs to be done is to contact everyone on the =
list to=20
find those that are willing to make some sort of a commitment to gain=20
concessions from Cendant. If we can generate enough people who are =
willing=20
to make a commitment we can then develop an action plan. =
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D4><SPAN class=3D460372001-25062003>Do =
you have any=20
ideas? Is the fight over and am I beating a dead=20
horse?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D460372001-25062003><FONT size=3D4>Bill=20
Walters</FONT><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2><B>From:</B> ltpc-disc-admin@ltpcalums.com=20
[mailto:ltpc-disc-admin@ltpcalums.com]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Ben=20
Polis<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 17, 2003 6:30 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [LTPC-discussions] =
UNITED WE=20
STAND DIVIDED WE HAVE BEEN HAD<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bill is totally on target. We =
need a=20
rallying point!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dwilliamwalters@verizon.net=20
href=3D"mailto:williamwalters@verizon.net">William C. Walters</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com=20
href=3D"mailto:ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com">ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 17, 2003 =
4:15=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [LTPC-discussions] =
UNITED WE=20
STAND DIVIDED WE HAVE BEEN HAD</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D5>UNITED WE STAND=20
DIVIDED WE HAVE BEEN HAD</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>Cendant will win because =
they understand=20
mob psychology and that time will generally dissipate the energy and =
resolve=20
of a mob. Our mob is a disorganized group of aroused =
agents=20
clamoring various complaints about what they perceive to be the =
wrongs that=20
Progeny and the management team under Robert Foreman, committed =
against=20
them. Each mob member has a complaint that they want to =
register and=20
when their complaint is joined together with all the other =
unorganized=20
voices you have a great din that will eventually dissipate because =
the=20
members of the mob will tire, get discouraged and eventually give =
up. =20
It is happening right now as we see members daily dropping from the =
mailing=20
list. Cendant is counting on this happening, and they are =
smugly=20
confidant that our DISORGANIZED NOISE will dissipate and that the =
members of=20
the MOB will disband with their tails between their legs licking =
their=20
wounds.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>In Japan there is a room in =
every=20
factory where there is an effigy of the boss or manager. When =
an=20
employee becomes disgruntled with his boss he/she can go into the =
room and=20
with a stick beat up the boss=E2=80=99s effigy dissipating his/her =
anger. This=20
method seems to be very effective and the worker goes back to his =
job and=20
the manager may never know that he has been savagely beaten=20
in-absentcia. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>This site can be no more =
than a place=20
where the crowd can vent their anger, accept defeat and then go on =
to other=20
things, without causing the perpetrators of their pain any=20
discomfort.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>OR</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>It can be a rallying point =
where we can=20
become ORGANIZED and clearly state our grievances clearly and=20
rationally. The grievances and violated principals involved =
should be=20
agreed upon by all and presented to Cendant, by a chosen leader or=20
potentially by a Class Action Attorney who may take the case on a=20
contingency basis. The voice of a well organized group that is =
determined and willing to stay the course will get far better =
results than=20
the cacophony of a mob of complainers. Of course we have to get on =
with our=20
lives and do what we have to do, but we do not have to abandon our=20
principals and bow our heads in submission to a ruthless system that =
has=20
blatantly and shamelessly misused us. <BR>At the risk of =
sounding=20
trite to some I have to remind those who favor inaction that our =
country was=20
founded upon principals and Americans have and are dying for those=20
principals. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>Here is a draft of the =
violations that=20
Cendant has committed by not living up to in their stated and =
implied=20
promises to us. The final list should contain a list of categories =
that are=20
representative of our individual grievances. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>1. Progeny lied to newly =
hired agents by=20
misrepresenting the amount of activity it would take to achieve =
stated=20
results; i.e.: <BR>=EF=82=B7 The 15-10-50 formula <BR>=EF=82=B7 The =
earnings to be expected=20
from this activity <BR>=EF=82=B7 The quality of the leads was =
misrepresented.=20
<BR>=EF=82=B7 The claim that we were not telemarketing. =
I question the=20
core belief that we were not telemarketing because a very large =
percentage=20
of the leads insisted that they did not request information. =
<BR>=EF=82=B7 Promised=20
that we would have the opportunity to earn our renewals, then denied =
us that=20
opportunity. <BR>=EF=82=B7 Promised follow-up training after our =
training in=20
Tennessee, which they did not provide. =
<BR>=EF=82=B7 Lying to us=20
up the very end of our employment about the future opportunities of =
our=20
employment with them when they knew well in advance that they were =
going to=20
close the operation down. This lie was very costly to =
many=20
agents especially the new ones who had to make a large personal, =
financial=20
and emotional investment in the job as they were in hopes of =
securing their=20
future with the promise of higher quality leads and their=20
renewals.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>To repeat, this is a draft =
(a starting=20
point) of some of our collective grievances. Any or all of =
these=20
grievances can be replaced with grievances that are agreed upon by =
the=20
group. The final list must be the result of the input of=20
all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>Our immediate challenge is =
to choose a=20
leader such as Doug Burg or some other qualified person who was =
willing,=20
able and committed to representing us in the pursuit of =
justice. There=20
are those who are either ambivalent or indifferent in pursuing =
justice,=20
perhaps because: <BR>1. They do not feel that they were violated by =
an=20
organization that under the guise of integrity lied and used them =
<BR>2.=20
They feel that we have a lost cause <BR>3. They don=E2=80=99t =
want to be=20
bothered </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>If your home was burglarized =
where=20
valuable and personal items were stolen and you knew who the burglar =
was;=20
Would they say, =E2=80=9Cthat=E2=80=99s life lets get on with it and =
forget that we were=20
robbed=E2=80=9D or would you have the burglar arrested, brought to =
justice and=20
recover some of your losses.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>Let us have a show of hands =
to find out=20
if we are the unorganized mob that Progeny is counting on or if we =
are or an=20
organized group of agents in the pursuit of justice. Once we =
have a=20
committed number of people we can decide on a plan of action. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>This =
quote from Doug=20
Burg is an appropriate conclusion to this message. =E2=80=9CThe =
bottom line is that=20
Progeny does have certain responsibilities and we have certain =
rights. =20
It is reasonable and fair to expect them to live up to those=20
obligations.=E2=80=9D Doug Burg<BR> <BR>Bill =
Walters<BR></FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:williamwalters@verizon.net"><FONT=20
size=3D3>williamwalters@verizon.net</FONT></A> =20
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
ltpc-disc-admin@ltpcalums.com =
[mailto:ltpc-disc-admin@ltpcalums.com]<B>On=20
Behalf Of</B> AZSOLD@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 17, 2003 =
5:43=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:=20
[LTPC-discussions] UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE HAVE BEEN=20
HAD<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>amen</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" =
PTSIZE=3D"10">David=20
Kropp<BR>480-991-6599</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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