[LTPC-discussions] So you think us newcomers got ths shaft? YES I DO.
S T Cuscovitch
ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com
Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:06:27 -0400
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<...Show me one thing in the contract that Cendant did not live up =
to!!!!!!! I repeat, IN THE CONTRACT!!!!!!!!!...>=20
For whatever reason, the employer chose to make this an "at will" =
Employer - Employee relationship, therefore labor laws apply that are =
that the scope of the LTPC contract. LTPC references this -- see =
Contract Section VIII.B. =20
A question was raised several weeks back about ERISA section =A7510.=20
Snip.. <...Avoiding large liabilities under ERISA =A7510 when an =
employer downsizes, closes, or sells a business unit that has high =
projected future benefit costs...>=20
Does ERISA =A7510 apply to "agent vesting"? Maybe yes, maybe no. Murky =
(IMO).=20
In any case...
...if you can't answer the ERISA question w/100% certainty, how can you =
feel safe as an agent working for anyone's vesting promise (except =
possibly trustworthy blue-chip firms), knowing an organization can =
willy-nilly shut down and avoid long-term, financial IOUs if it serves =
their financial interest?=20
Who or what backs insurance-related vesting promise(s) made to EE =
agents? Captive 1099 agents? Non-captive 1099 agents?
What, if any, legal remedies are available should any financial services =
firm that make promises, don't deliver, and simply < downsize, close, or =
sell a business unit that has high projected future benefit cost >?=20
From: Bob Hadidian=20
To: ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com=20
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [LTPC-discussions] So you think us newcomers got ths =
shaft? YES I DO.
Why all the name calling? Why is it ok for those who think like you to =
call names and disparage opinions?
=20
I am not a vested agent. But I signed the contract and have to abide =
by its terms. At no time was employment guaranteed. In fact it was =
expressly termed "AT WILL". VESTING WAS AT $350,000 NOT A PENNY SOONER. =
You cannot lose what you never possessed.
=20
Do I think Cendant was NICE? No=20
=20
Show me one thing in the contract that Cendant did not live up =
to!!!!!!! I repeat, IN THE CONTRACT!!!!!!!!!
=20
However, I did receive OUTSTANDING training that prepared me for the =
industry. After 10 months in the industry (not just new to LTC), I had =
numerous companies calling me about a job. My time was well spent.
My expenses are a tax write off.
=20
In 8 weeks time I have more than made up for $ that were compromised. =
This was accomplished by losing the baggage.
=20
And I refuse to go around looking for a hand out because somebody =
wasn't nice to me.=20
=20
Show respect for others' opinions. The fact that you say my comments =
are shallow shows the disregard you have for an opinion that differs =
from yours.
=20
Doug, you said that you would ban those that could not be civil.=20
=20
Bob
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: William C. Walters=20
To: ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com=20
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: [LTPC-discussions] So you think us newcomers got ths =
shaft? YES I DO.
I have tried to avoid responding to the inane comments about moving =
on to new cheese. However a few who have read "Who Moved My Cheese" have =
insisted upon turning its message into a cliche that applies to all =
situations in life. Will the sender of this shallow comment please note =
that "WE HAVE GONE OUT AND FOUND NEW CHEESE" WE ARE GETTING ON WITH OUR =
LIVES" WE HAVE NOT BEEN PARALYZED INTO INACTIVITY IDLEY MOANING AND =
GROANING ABOUT WHAT A BAD HAND LIFE HAS SERVED US. The writers of these =
shallow remarks refuse to understand that Cendant has screwed us and =
only a small part of our time is being spent in seeking JUSTICE. =
Apparently the words JUSTICE and PRINCPLES are not part of the =
vocabulary of these authors. These authors would be the first to whine =
loud clear and long if their wallet or something that they held to be =
valuable were stolen. Many non-vested agents have been cheated out of, =
robbed of, thousands of dollars of renewals because of the fraudulent =
acts of Cendant. Many new agents were robbed of valuable, time, energy =
and expense. Agents have their dreams dashed when they could have spent =
the same time fruitfully pursuing other ventures. Part of getting on =
with our life is attempting to seek justice for what many of us believe =
to be, the criminal and fraudulent acts of Cendant against us. I suspect =
that some of the commentators who appear to be defending Cendant agree =
with the way they treated their agents. The only mold that I detect is =
the thinking of the author of these comments.=20
B.W.
-----Original Message-----
From: ltpc-disc-admin@ltpcalums.com =
[mailto:ltpc-disc-admin@ltpcalums.com]On Behalf Of Christopher S. Jones
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 2:37 PM
To: ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com
Subject: Re: [LTPC-discussions] So you think us newcomers got ths =
shaft?
Welcome to the world of business!!
=20
Time to get on to a better life. (YOUR CHEESE HAS BEEN MOVED! =
NOW GO FIND OUT WHERE LIFE HAS PUT IT BEFORE IT TURNS TO MOLD!!!
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jesus Diaz=20
To: ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com=20
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [LTPC-discussions] So you think us newcomers got =
ths shaft?
AGREE..................1 0 0 =
%.................AGREE......AGREE......
----- Original Message -----=20
From: ShampooRic@aol.com=20
To: ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com=20
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [LTPC-discussions] So you think us newcomers got =
ths shaft?
I agree with you, not everything was bad. A lot of good =
people at LTPC. Learned a lot and decided to make a career of this. But =
that does not excuse those that made decisions that affected many =
people. What about those new agents hired in DEC, or Jan, or even Feb. =
They never even had a chance to train. They wasted weeks even months =
for a position that was already a dead end. =20
I know that I am in a better position than I was before, but =
that still does not excuse those that showed so little regard for agents =
like they were just pawns in a game.
This is not about a company that lost money and went into =
bankruptcy. I can understand that better. They showed no respect for =
some agents and that is wrong.
Richard=20
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message area">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><...<FONT face=3DArial>Show me one thing in =
the contract=20
that Cendant did not live up to!!!!!!! I repeat, IN THE =
CONTRACT!!!!!!!!!...>=20
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>For whatever reason, the employer =
chose to make=20
this an "at will" Employer - Employee relationship, therefore labor laws =
apply=20
that are that the scope of the LTPC contract. LTPC =
references this --=20
see Contract Section VIII.B. </FONT><FONT face=3DArial> =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>A question was raised several weeks back about =
ERISA=20
section =A7510. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Snip.. <...Avoiding large liabilities under =
ERISA =A7510=20
when an employer downsizes, closes, or sells a business unit that has =
high=20
projected future benefit costs...> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Does ERISA =A7510 apply to "agent vesting"? =
Maybe yes, maybe=20
no. Murky (IMO). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>In any case...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>...if you can't answer the ERISA =
question w/100%=20
certainty, how can you feel safe as an agent working for anyone's =
vesting=20
promise (except possibly trustworthy blue-chip firms), knowing =
an=20
organization can willy-nilly shut down and avoid long-term,=20
financial IOUs if it serves their financial =
interest? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Who or what backs insurance-related vesting =
promise(s)=20
made to EE agents? Captive 1099 agents? Non-captive 1099 =
agents?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>What, if any, legal remedies are =
available should any=20
financial services firm that make promises, don't deliver, and simply =
<=20
downsize, close, or sell a business unit that has high projected future =
benefit=20
cost >? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:bobhadidian@charter.net" =
title=3Dbobhadidian@charter.net>Bob=20
Hadidian</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com"=20
title=3Dltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com>ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 14, 2003 =
4:32 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [LTPC-discussions] =
So you=20
think us newcomers got ths shaft? YES I DO.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Why all the name calling? Why is it ok for =
those who=20
think like you to call names and disparage opinions?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I am not a vested agent. But I signed =
the contract=20
and have to abide by its terms. At no time was employment guaranteed. =
In fact=20
it was expressly termed "AT WILL". VESTING WAS AT $350,000 NOT A PENNY =
SOONER.=20
You cannot lose what you never possessed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Do I think Cendant was NICE? No </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Show me one thing in the contract that Cendant =
did not=20
live up to!!!!!!! I repeat, IN THE CONTRACT!!!!!!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>However, I did receive OUTSTANDING training =
that=20
prepared me for the industry. After 10 months in the industry (not =
just new to=20
LTC), I had numerous companies calling me about a job. My time was =
well=20
spent.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>My expenses are a tax write =
off.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>In 8 weeks time I have more than made up for $ =
that were=20
compromised. This was accomplished by losing the baggage.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>And I refuse to go around looking for a hand =
out because=20
somebody wasn't nice to me. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Show respect for others' opinions. The fact =
that you say=20
my comments are shallow shows the disregard you have for an opinion =
that=20
differs from yours.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Doug, you said that you would ban those that =
could not=20
be civil. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Bob</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:williamwalters@verizon.net"=20
title=3Dwilliamwalters@verizon.net>William C. Walters</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com"=20
title=3Dltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com>ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 14, 2014 =
1:13=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: =
[LTPC-discussions] So you=20
think us newcomers got ths shaft? YES I DO.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D580342419-14072014><FONT size=3D3>
<P><FONT face=3DArial>I have tried to avoid responding to the inane =
comments=20
about moving on to new cheese. However a few who have read "Who =
Moved My=20
Cheese" have insisted upon turning its message into a cliche that =
applies to=20
all situations in life. Will the sender of this shallow comment =
please note=20
that "WE HAVE GONE OUT AND FOUND NEW CHEESE" WE ARE GETTING ON WITH =
OUR=20
LIVES" WE HAVE NOT BEEN PARALYZED INTO INACTIVITY IDLEY MOANING AND =
GROANING=20
ABOUT WHAT A BAD HAND LIFE HAS SERVED US. The writers of these =
shallow=20
remarks refuse to understand that Cendant has screwed us and only a =
small=20
part of our time is being spent in seeking JUSTICE. Apparently the =
words=20
JUSTICE and PRINCPLES are not part of the vocabulary of these =
authors. These=20
authors would be the first to whine loud clear and long if their =
wallet or=20
something that they held to be valuable were stolen. Many non-vested =
agents=20
have been cheated out of, robbed of, thousands of dollars of =
renewals=20
because of the fraudulent acts of Cendant. Many new agents were =
robbed of=20
valuable, time, energy and expense. Agents have their dreams dashed =
when=20
they could have spent the same time fruitfully pursuing other =
ventures. Part=20
of getting on with our life is attempting to seek justice for what =
many of=20
us believe to be, <SPAN class=3D580342419-14072014>the =
</SPAN>criminal=20
and fraudulent acts of Cendant against us. I suspect that some of =
the=20
commentators who appear to be defending Cendant agree with the way =
they=20
treated their agents. The only mold that I detect is the thinking of =
the=20
author of these comments. </FONT></P><FONT size=3D2>
<P>B.W.</P></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN =
class=3D580342419-14072014></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN=20
class=3D580342419-14072014></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><SPAN=20
class=3D580342419-14072014> </SPAN>-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> ltpc-disc-admin@ltpcalums.com=20
[mailto:ltpc-disc-admin@ltpcalums.com]<B>On Behalf Of</B> =
Christopher S.=20
Jones<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 14, 2003 2:37 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [LTPC-discussions] So =
you=20
think us newcomers got ths shaft?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Welcome to the world of =
business!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Time to get on to a better life. =
(YOUR CHEESE=20
HAS BEEN MOVED! NOW GO FIND OUT WHERE LIFE HAS PUT IT =
BEFORE=20
IT TURNS TO MOLD!!!</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:jrd_01@msn.com" title=3Djrd_01@msn.com>Jesus =
Diaz</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com"=20
title=3Dltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com>ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 12, =
2003 7:56=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[LTPC-discussions] So=20
you think us newcomers got ths shaft?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>AGREE..................1 0 0=20
%.................AGREE......AGREE......</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ShampooRic@aol.com">ShampooRic@aol.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com">ltpc-disc@ltpcalums.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 11, =
2003 10:09=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[LTPC-discussions]=20
So you think us newcomers got ths shaft?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT face=3DArial =
lang=3D0=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">I agree with you, not everything was =
bad. A=20
lot of good people at LTPC. Learned a lot and decided to make =
a career=20
of this. But that does not excuse those that made =
decisions that=20
affected many people. What about those new agents hired =
in DEC,=20
or Jan, or even Feb. They never even had a chance to=20
train. They wasted weeks even months for a position that =
was=20
already a dead end. <BR><BR>I know that I am in a better =
position than I was before, but that still does not excuse =
those that=20
showed so little regard for agents like they were just pawns =
in a=20
game.<BR><BR>This is not about a company that lost money and =
went into=20
bankruptcy. I can understand that better. They =
showed no=20
respect for some agents and that is =
wrong.<BR><BR>Richard</FONT>=20
=
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></BODY></HTML>
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