[kj] OT: The great Punk Debate

Sun Oct 17 17:41:56 EDT 2004

"I have always seen the Ramones as an update of the 60's garage bands.  
Great pop songs but never what I would term "punk"."

ROB, MY BLOOD IS BOILING. I'M GOING TO FLY OVER TO ENGLAND AND KILL YOU  
AND BUILD A HOVERCRAFT WITH YOUR BONES AND SAIL BACK TO THE STATES ON  
IT.

ALEX IN NYC..HELL BENT ON HOMICIDE

On Sunday, October 17, 2004, at 05:10 PM, Rob's Arse wrote:

>
> That's a good point Peter.
>
> I have teased Alex for ages about this, but I have always viewed the  
> Dolls as Glam. Trashy, yes but Glam.
>
> I have always seen the Ramones as an update of the 60's garage bands.  
> Great pop songs but never what I would term "punk".
>
> Punk is much more than the music. I love the nihilism of the Pistols  
> and the general "up yours" attitude. The WHY? That's why I belive that  
> Punk is English.
>
> You American guys had a good go though. Full marks for effort lads ;-)
>
>  
>
> --- "peter.west410" <peter.west410 at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> From: "peter.west410" <peter.west410 at ntlworld.com>
> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:56:59 +0100
> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"  
> <gathering at misera.net>
> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
>
> I think that the NY dolls were part of the glam movement,When exactly  
> did
> the Ramones first tour the UK? and the Ramones were never more than a  
> cult
> band in the UK.
> Right, you can generally put any noisy, out of tune band and say they
> were the original punk band ,some even give examples of bands from the  
> 60s
> ,saying they can be classed as punk.
> I think the only way to do it is to see where the first single which
> was punk as we know it,I put in a search for "First punk single" and  
> it came
> up with"New Rose" by "The Damned".
> Right, all we have to do is find out where The Damned came from,and
> that place will be where punk originated.
> Does anyone know where The Damned came from?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christof hamille" <wessidetempest at hotmail.com>
> To: <gathering at misera.net>
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 3:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
>
>
> > Agreed Alex
> >
> > It seems to obvious. If you have not read or figured out that none  
> of the
> > punk bands in England happened until AFTER the Ramones toured there  
> then
> you
> > can look at McLaren and realize that he knew NOTHING about it until  
> he saw
> > Richard Hell in NYC and came back to England with the infamous white  
> Les
> > Paul that was passed on to Steve Jones. That guitar was originally  
> owned
> by
> > one Sylvain Sylvain of the NEW YORK DOLLS. And along with that that  
> is
> > where he got the idea of the tattered clothing with the spray painted
> > phrases on them. So no matter how you slice it it started in NYC. It
> > exploded in England.
> >
> > That is all of the repeated energy I am putting into this
> >
> > enjoy
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > >From: Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
> > >Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> > ><gathering at misera.net>
> > >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> > ><gathering at misera.net>
> > >Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
> > >Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:02:47 -0400
> > >
> > >
> > >Not that it's not a compelling debate, Peter, but with Mik Raven  
> absent,
> I
> > >can't summon the stamina to get into it here again.
> > >
> > >I'll just cite two names to cement my point: THE RAMONES and RICHARD
> HELL.
> > >
> > >Alex in NYC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Saturday, October 16, 2004, at 08:42 PM, peter.west410 wrote:
> > >
> > >>"As was Punk Rock".
> > >>
> > >>No way,It may have been conceived in NY,But it was born & breed in  
> the
> > >>UK.
> > >>
> > >>Original Message -----
> > >>From: "Rob's Arse" <joker at Z6.com>
> > >>To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> > >><gathering at misera.net>
> > >>Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 11:00 PM
> > >>Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>I never got what they were about. Just didn't.
> > >>I have always found them totally alien.
> > >>Whiney brats.
> > >>
> > >>Saw ice Cube once too.Reading festival. So lame it was embarassing.
> > >>
> > >>--- Mark G Holt <akillingjoker at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>From: Mark G Holt <akillingjoker at yahoo.co.uk>
> > >>Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:05:04 +0100 (BST)
> > >>To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> > >><gathering at misera.net>
> > >>Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>i love the beasties too, alex, for what its worth
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> For what it's worth, I think Eminem may indeed be clever --- BUT  
> I'M
> > >> FUCKIN' SICK OF HIM!
> > >>
> > >> Hip Hop I *DO* actually like, despite my genre-sweeping  
> condemnation:
> > >>
> > >> Public Enemy, Wu-Tang Clan, Busta Rhymes, Jurassic 5, Nas, (some)
> > >> Jay-Z, (some) Geto Boys, and I used to quite enjoy the first  
> record
> by
> > >> Das Efx. MC Paul Barman, incidentally, is a thousand times more
> > >> entertaining than Eminem. And I'll always love the Beastie Boys
> > >> (although they've really become a genre unto themselves).
> > >>
> > >> Yeah, Hip Hop was born in NYC. As was Punk Rock. That NYC is long
> dead
> > >> and gone.
> > >>
> > >> Fuck KRS-One, though.
> > >>
> > >> Alex in NYC
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Saturday, October 16, 2004, at 11:14 AM, Mark G Holt wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>That's the Gathering...room for everyone with every opinion and  
> you're
> > >>>entitled to yours Leigh....
> > >>>We may not agree but w hat the hell
> > >>>
> > >>>cheers
> > >>>
> > >>>Mark
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Leigh Newton wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>Me, that's who. Fuck Eminem. Joyless cocksucker that
> > >>>he is.
> > >>>
> > >>>Leigh
> > >>>
> > >>>--- Mark G Holt wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>got to agree here
> > >>>>straight outta compton is awesome, and who honestly
> > >>>>doesnt either like or respect eminem?
> > >>>>then there's the gravel pit.....it's not hip hop
> > >>>>that's wrong. it's what some people say without
> > >>>>thinking, i believe
> > >>>>as for yoga etc, try taoism, it's working for me....
> > >>>>
> > >>>>cheers
> > >>>>
> > >>>>mark
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Devacor at aol.com wrote:
> > >>>>In a message dated 10/14/2004 5:23:48 PM Eastern
> > >>>>Daylight Time, vassifer at earthlink.net writes:
> > >>>>KRS-One, decency zero
> > >>>>
> > >>>>If Osama Bin Laden ever buy s a rap album, he'll
> > >>>>probably start with a
> > >>>>CD by KRS-One.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>The hip-hop anarchist has declared his solidarity
> > >>>>with Al Qaeda by
> > >>>>asserting that he and other African-Americans
> > >>>>"cheered when 9/11
> > >>>>happened."
> > >>>>
> > >>>>The rapper, whose real name is Kris Parker, defiled
> > >>>>the memory of those
> > >>>>who died in the terrorist attacks as he spouted off
> > >>>>at a recent New
> > >>>>Yorker Festival panel discussion.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>I was always let down by KRS- he actually was raised
> > >>>>by parents who were trained in mystic yoga and he
> > >>>>was brought up that way. He named was actually
> > >>>>Krishna, which he changed to kris and "KRS" - he has
> > >>>>a lot of insight but wound up just getting
> > >>>>sidetracked by sentiment.
> > >>>>I recently just rebought the first NWA "Straight
> > >>>>ou tta Compton"- its great. I remember my jaw dropped
> > >>>>when I heard it when it first came out. It just came
> > >>>>outta nowhere and nothing has ever come close.
> > >>>>_______________________________________________
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