[kj] OT: The great Punk Debate

[Neil Perry]

Yeah but Alex, I think what Rob's saying is that,
well, the American bands weren't really *proper* punk,
were they? They may have come first, but they never
really got it...
Fastening the hatches on my shelter now
N


 --- Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote: 
> 
> "I have always seen the Ramones as an update of the
> 60's garage bands.  
> Great pop songs but never what I would term "punk"."
> 
> ROB, MY BLOOD IS BOILING. I'M GOING TO FLY OVER TO
> ENGLAND AND KILL YOU  
> AND BUILD A HOVERCRAFT WITH YOUR BONES AND SAIL BACK
> TO THE STATES ON  
> IT.
> 
> ALEX IN NYC..HELL BENT ON HOMICIDE
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, October 17, 2004, at 05:10 PM, Rob's Arse
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > That's a good point Peter.
> >
> > I have teased Alex for ages about this, but I have
> always viewed the  
> > Dolls as Glam. Trashy, yes but Glam.
> >
> > I have always seen the Ramones as an update of the
> 60's garage bands.  
> > Great pop songs but never what I would term
> "punk".
> >
> > Punk is much more than the music. I love the
> nihilism of the Pistols  
> > and the general "up yours" attitude. The WHY?
> That's why I belive that  
> > Punk is English.
> >
> > You American guys had a good go though. Full marks
> for effort lads ;-)
> >
> >  
> >
> > --- "peter.west410" <peter.west410 at ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > From: "peter.west410" <peter.west410 at ntlworld.com>
> > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:56:59 +0100
> > To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the
> band!)"  
> > <gathering at misera.net>
> > Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all
> of it
> >
> > I think that the NY dolls were part of the glam
> movement,When exactly  
> > did
> > the Ramones first tour the UK? and the Ramones
> were never more than a  
> > cult
> > band in the UK.
> > Right, you can generally put any noisy, out of
> tune band and say they
> > were the original punk band ,some even give
> examples of bands from the  
> > 60s
> > ,saying they can be classed as punk.
> > I think the only way to do it is to see where the
> first single which
> > was punk as we know it,I put in a search for
> "First punk single" and  
> > it came
> > up with"New Rose" by "The Damned".
> > Right, all we have to do is find out where The
> Damned came from,and
> > that place will be where punk originated.
> > Does anyone know where The Damned came from?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christof hamille"
> <wessidetempest at hotmail.com>
> > To: <gathering at misera.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 3:41 PM
> > Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all
> of it
> >
> >
> > > Agreed Alex
> > >
> > > It seems to obvious. If you have not read or
> figured out that none  
> > of the
> > > punk bands in England happened until AFTER the
> Ramones toured there  
> > then
> > you
> > > can look at McLaren and realize that he knew
> NOTHING about it until  
> > he saw
> > > Richard Hell in NYC and came back to England
> with the infamous white  
> > Les
> > > Paul that was passed on to Steve Jones. That
> guitar was originally  
> > owned
> > by
> > > one Sylvain Sylvain of the NEW YORK DOLLS. And
> along with that that  
> > is
> > > where he got the idea of the tattered clothing
> with the spray painted
> > > phrases on them. So no matter how you slice it
> it started in NYC. It
> > > exploded in England.
> > >
> > > That is all of the repeated energy I am putting
> into this
> > >
> > > enjoy
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > >From: Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
> > > >Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke
> (the band!)"
> > > ><gathering at misera.net>
> > > >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the
> band!)"
> > > ><gathering at misera.net>
> > > >Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not
> all of it
> > > >Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:02:47 -0400
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Not that it's not a compelling debate, Peter,
> but with Mik Raven  
> > absent,
> > I
> > > >can't summon the stamina to get into it here
> again.
> > > >
> > > >I'll just cite two names to cement my point:
> THE RAMONES and RICHARD
> > HELL.
> > > >
> > > >Alex in NYC
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Saturday, October 16, 2004, at 08:42 PM,
> peter.west410 wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>"As was Punk Rock".
> > > >>
> > > >>No way,It may have been conceived in NY,But it
> was born & breed in  
> > the
> > > >>UK.
> > > >>
> > > >>Original Message -----
> > > >>From: "Rob's Arse" <joker at Z6.com>
> > > >>To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the
> band!)"
> > > >><gathering at misera.net>
> > > >>Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 11:00 PM
> > > >>Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not
> all of it
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>I never got what they were about. Just didn't.
> > > >>I have always found them totally alien.
> > > >>Whiney brats.
> > > >>
> > > >>Saw ice Cube once too.Reading festival. So
> lame it was embarassing.
> > > >>
> > > >>--- Mark G Holt <akillingjoker at yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>From: Mark G Holt <akillingjoker at yahoo.co.uk>
> > > >>Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:05:04 +0100 (BST)
> > > >>To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the
> band!)"
> > > >><gathering at misera.net>
> > > >>Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not
> all of it
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>i love the beasties too, alex, for what its
> worth
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> For what it's worth, I think Eminem may
> indeed be clever --- BUT  
> > I'M
> > > >> FUCKIN' SICK OF HIM!
> > > >>
> > > >> Hip Hop I *DO* actually like, despite my
> genre-sweeping  
> 
=== message truncated ===>
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