[kj] (OT) SHOCK!!

[peter.west410]

"But neither country had real communism, and no country today has it "
     Why do you think that is?(Because it does nt work?)

What is your opinion of Cambodia?Was it communism?What is your opinion about Pol Pot and his regime?Did it go wrong (If yes)why?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: GregSlawson at aol.com 
  To: gathering at misera.net 
  Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 7:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [kj] (OT) SHOCK!!


  In a message dated 9/5/2004 1:52:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, peter.west410 at ntlworld.com writes:


    I think the problem with Communism is that It's difficult to get people too work without any incentive on a country-wide scale.The only way too make people work hard is to offer an incentive (Either more money or not getting fired).
        Saying that it is possible on a small scale,Independent communities (like Kibbutz in Israel) where people work for each other for the common good and the results are tangible.If you could transfer that to a mass scale then it may be possible.
        Bin -Laden and co are not Communists or nationalists but religionists(Dont think thats a word,but you know what I mean)And Cuba depends on Western(Capitalist) tourist money too keep the economy going.
       I did visit China in it's communist days(late 80s)



      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: GregSlawson at aol.com 
      To: gathering at misera.net 
      Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 6:36 PM
      Subject: Re: [kj] (OT) SHOCK!!


      First, you're right that many terrorists are middle-class or have middle or ruling class backing (like Bin Laden). THis backs up my argument that it's part of a fight between capitalists (Bin Laden represents Saudi capitalists who don't want to share oil profits w/the US, that's why they're nationalists). Second, it's obvious, like you said, that communism didn't work in places like N Korea, although in Cuba they've done some good stuff. But neither country had real communism, and no country today has it (Cuba being the only one that has some aspects of it). People (including communists) are intelligent and are capable of learning from mistakes of the past. People will be able to learn how to implement real communism, where there is not an elite class in control, and where, like you said, people treat each other well. I know the "human nature" argument will be parrotted next, but that's another story (try talking to biologists about human nature). 




  I agree w/some points--I like the term "religionists", but I still think Bin Laden mainly represents a group of capitalists, despite all the religious rhetoric, etc. And by  the way, China clearly stopped being communist before the 80s--really by about 1970 (remember when they invitied Nixon?). And I think you counld transfer communism to many small scales--each factory, block, school, etc. would have its own group running things. But the main point is abuot incentives to work. Even under capitalism, people are not mainly motivated by money, although it is a major one, and is of course necessary. People are motivated by many things that matter besides money--doing art or music (ever hear of this group Killing Joke?), doing things for their faimilies, helping out people in trouble, etc. And to use a historical example, the closer the Soviet Union was to communism (early 20s for example), the MORE people were motivated and the less important money was. In fact, there was a short period of a couple of years or so, where the civil war was so bad that there was no $ to pay people--it was in this period that people were so motivated that many volunteered to work for free, and began to industrialize their nation, leading to its superpower (and later capitalist) status that led to the Cold War. 


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