[kj] OT: Tookie and Arnie / 14 Days in May

[Nuclear Boy]

I agree with you, Jiri.
For me the death penalty may only be acceptable in a civil war.
Pavel

-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On
Behalf Of Jiri
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 11:45 PM
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Tookie and Arnie / 14 Days in May

 >>gingoblin at easynet.co.uk wrote:
 >>There's just something I find incredibly chilling and sickening about 
the death penalty. Anyone here >>seen 14 Days In May?

Indeed. The death penalty is a joke. (A killing joke in fact, ha ha, 
we're on topic). It accomplishes nothing and has the high potential of 
screwing up -- i.e. killing an innocent person. Illinois stopped 
executions a few years back when a few on death row were found through 
DNA evidence (not available at the time of their conviction) to be 
innocent. Cases like this occur throughout the whole country. We just 
released one 'round here who had spent the last 25 years on death row.

With that in mind, why leave the penalty in force? What does it 
accomplish over a life sentence? The "cost to feed them/keep them alive" 
doesn't fly, because the cost of granting death-sentence appeals and 
lawyers also bleeds money...in some cases for 25 years! I have little 
compassion for Tookie and don't care that he turned himself around 
somewhat while in prison (I'd expect a human to make the most of himself 
when serving a life sentence anyway), but the State clearly cannot be 
trusted to execute the death penalty with 100% accuracy, and when you're 
messing with someone's life, I think 100% accuracy is a fair expectation.

I haven't seen 14 Days in May but have heard about it, and that brings 
up another great point: a much higher percentage of black murder 
convicts receive the death sentence than do white murder convicts. Why 
is that? Perhaps "the System" and its juries, with all their biases, is 
not acting objectively and is truly warped??? Such a system should not 
be granted the power of life-and-death decisions.

Unfortunately, you can't find a truly objective way of sorting out the 
clear-cut, kill-the-sick-bastard Mansons from the fate-has-screwed-you, 
wrong-place-wrong-time innocent convictions, so the only reasonable 
choice is to completely eliminate this sick form of...don't even know 
what it is...punishment?...public catharsis?

gingoblin at easynet.co.uk wrote:

> At 21:09 13/12/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> the basis of our conclusion will no doubt depend on the origins of our
>> morality -
>
>
> Ha ha, tell me about it mate!  I learnt my 
> don't-waste-time-arguing-on-the-internet lesson long ago (I keep 
> forgetting, hence writing more bollocks like this!)
>
> I see where yer coming from, but as is always the case, I think I'd 
> prefer to continue being alive here than take a 
> faster/unwanted/possibly unwarranted journey to 
> see-what's-on-the-other-side. I s'pose 'cos I think there's nothing! I 
> hope I'm proven wrong :-)  (not hell though!)
>
> There's just something I find incredibly chilling and sickening about 
> the death penalty. Anyone here seen 14 Days In May?
>
>
>
>> how many athiests are judging this based on judea christian
>> beliefs ; ).
>> How would a buddhist for example view this? is it karma and is death
>> not simply a door?  So would there be any problem?
>> Why, i wonder, do we see death in the way we do? i dont know the
>> answer but i find it more interesting than falling back on pre set
>> opinions to suit a type...but i guess thats what i like.
>>
>>
>> > Believe me Pat, I've thought about this... I'd want to kill them, 
>> pure and
>> > simple. But that would be an emotional reaction, and I think that 
>> stuff
>> > like the death penalty needs a more objective view. I really fail 
>> to see
>> > any decent argument for it, and mostly it just ends up being more 
>> like a
>> > revenge-killing, sanctioned by the State (the very ones who say 
>> it's wrong
>> > to kill... well, in most cases).
>> > Dave in Edinburgh
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Pat in aberdeen
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>
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