[kj] Killing joke and Communism

[ade]

Mate, *any* system you can think of is imperfect.

-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net
[mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Brendan
Sent: 22 August 2007 23:15
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] Killing joke and Communism


You need to realise that 'economic growth' of x% / year is
unsustainable...a percentage growth / year equation, similar to
compounding interest, results in exponential growth. All the economies
(and corporations) are constantly comparing their progress in terms of
profit growth, market share growth, asset growth etc, against each other.
It's a race.

However with finite resources, exponential growth eventually hits the
wall...even if you can automate everything to death so that machines are
perpetually exponentially more productive than humans...your natural
resources run out, and / or waste builds up to the point where it stymies
production.

It's one of the many problems with capitalism. Having said that, I agree
that I'd prefer to be living in a demorcatic capitalist society than a
repressive regime, just pointing out that it's an imperfect system...as
Ade and Olly and some others have pointed out, they all are. (Robert Anton
Wilson's core message wrapped up right there).

Having said that, I'm still working on my Manifesto, which aims to address
all of the above ;P


> "(with all goods distributed according to need, not status)"

>

>  Well, we all dont *need* much to survive , no one *needs* expensive cars

> or Jewellery or  large houses or anything of that nature , all we "need"

> is food , shelter and water . You dont realise Greg that people consuming

> things keeps others in employment . If we only consumed what we needed,

> then that would take away many peoples employment .

>     And who decides who needs what? That Human survival instinct makes us

> naturally Capitalist . In Communist Countries , there is only minimal

> need for consumer goods , so there is a lot of people without jobs to

> do, so they have 20 people "employed" to do a one man job .

>   How about giving goods to people who contribute the most to society? How

> about giving people who make the most contribution a piece of paper

> entitling them to rewards for there hard work? How about calling this

> piece of paper: Money? *

>

> *Is that the correct punctuation ?

>

>

>

>

>

> ========================================

> Message Received: Aug 22 2007, 04:36 AM

> From: "GREG SLAWSON"

> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> Cc:

> Subject: Re: [kj] Killing joke and Communism

>

> I respectfully disagree. Socialism (the big S one?) is what existed in the

> USSR and China and is hanging on in Cuba. They all maintained heirarchical

> leadership, wage slavery and wage differences, and economic/political

> classes. And in China and Russia they led to the current grotesque forms

> of capitalism (rampant unemployment, crime, drugs, alienation, social

> unrest, poverty). The other (small s?) or Euro-socialism certainly has

> advantages (as displayed in the new Micheal Moore film) but maintains all

> the bad parts of capitalism (unemployment, alienation,

> crime, economic cylcles, top-down leadership, etc). I prefer communism

> with a big C--summed up in a slogan I made up:

> No wages (with all goods distributed according to need, not status),

> No stages (as in stages from national liberation to socialism to

> communism, which has failed in countless countries),

> No borders (one world, one party, one flag),

> No orders (all decisions made collectively).

> A lot of this stuff can be found at www.plp.org...

>

>> From: folkdevil_23 at hotmail.com

>> To: gathering at misera.net

>> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:47:54 -0700

>> Subject: Re: [kj] Killing joke and Communism

>>) (0.1 Kb) ]_______________________________________________

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