[kj] o/t Please sign the petition - it's too late

[Brendan Quinn]

Last time I ever tried to harm a bird (except for eating chicken which I do
all the time but we'll ignore that for the sake of, um...something) I was a
kid, in the middle of town (Wellington) one day...me and my mate were
biffing stones at a bunch of seagulls for a laugh. Then I noticed one
limping and I was absolutely aghast, I have almost never been more ashamed
of myself (although there was the time when I was staying at my mates' place
one night and I didn't have any pyjamas so his mum gave me a nightshirt, and
at one point he started cracking up hysterically, turned out I'd
accidentally tucked it into my undies in the back and he was trying not to
laugh the whole time but couldn't...sigh)

Anyways, after that I didn't throw anything at a bird for years...when I did
years later it was only pieces of bark :) Good for their avoidance skills
you know ;)

I type up emails I don't end up sending pretty often, but they go straight
into The Manifesto ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On
Behalf Of bongo
Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2007 10:14 p.m.
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] o/t Please sign the petition - it's too late

mr bq soundgardener!

i fully admire your ability to express yourself with the written word,
something i cant seem to fuckin do!
i've written 3 or 4 post these last few days and deleted them all...

karma, as i've heard it (cheers alan watts) simply means ACTION... and
of course, all action has consequence..
i admit to be idealistic, but try to be a realist as well..
talking about this with my gf this morning, and i managed to drag
religion into, much to her annoyance!
but....
if the church (our organised religion) actually meant anything *real*
(which it doesnt - re: zeitgeist) then perhaps more ppl would be aware
and in touch with the divine, and families at risk of violence may be
less inclined to follow that wrong path and perhaps align slightly
more with the harmonious.. who knows.. armchair philosophy is all too
easy..
but, again...
IS there a wrong path? maybe we are here in the density of lower
matter for these very reasons... the best lessons come from hardship,
even tho we know it, we still hate it when it happens...


as an aside...
when i was a young'un, i used to shoot birds in the back yard with my
air rifle... i remember wounding a bird once, catching it, and then
stuffing its beak into the barrel and shooting it in the face... I AM
SO ASHAMED OF THAT NOW and it was not long after that that i gave my
gun away and vowed never to willfully harm any living thing again..
(except mosquistos!)

with all the stuff i've learned over the years, its that if you can
take negativity and with compassion return positivity, then that is a
good thing... altho being a human i still enjoy being a cnut from time
to time!

waffle over . . .


=)


(hitting send instead of delete this time!)




On Dec 19, 2007 4:18 PM, Brendan <bq at soundgardener.co.nz> wrote:

> Perhaps Karma is getting yourself killed in retribution for torturing and

> killing an innocent kid? Basically without that retributive and protective

> instinct, we never would have survived as a species. However the issue is

> that now, we perhaps regard ourselves as having transcended our primal

> early stage...but we haven't, we're in transition, and it's very early

> days. (Maybe we're not even in transition, you could certainly make that

> argument.) But a lot of the instinctual hard-wired responses we have can

> be viewed as either not necessary or negative.

>

> Those primal instincts will still kick in as soon as you need them, unless

> you completely smother them...you all probably know people who you can't

> imagine being able to defend themselves at all if they had to, even if

> their lives depended on it. So I believe in keeping them around, but under

> control. From time to time let yourself get angry, learn how to fight,

> give people shit when they deserve it, etc. As long as it's always

> controlled. That's my credo at least. The band we're all supposed to be

> talking about would probably agree :)

>

> If those instincts are ever needed it is vital to be able to kick them

> into gear instantly and not be overwhelmed by adrenal dump (fight fright

> or flight response)...fully committed attack with the aim to do as much

> damage as possible and keep fighting until death. I'd certainly use it to

> defend myself, if there was the need...all of my thousands of ancestors

> did and it worked to get me here, it's just an adaptation to life on

> earth. We may not be the strongest or fastest or toughest, but we are

> certainly the most versatile organism on the planet, we can win or survive

> from practically anywhere. We can' run at 80km / hour and rip a water

> buffalo to pieces, but we can, as a species, lift 200kg overhead, dive to

> a hundred meters underwater, climb Everest, do an Ironman, throw a javelin

> 80 meters or so, program a computer, design a weapon that will kill

> practically anything etc...nothing comes close to the range of physical

> adaptations and skills we possess, let alone when aided by technology.

>

> Karma...that's a funny old one innit? Did that idea lead to cambodian

> buddhists allowing themselves to be slaughtered? Does your own life not

> count if you throw it away, isn't that murder of a sort? Don't you have

> the karma of throwing away (or not fighting to protect) your own life?! If

> that idea of followed to it's logical conclusion, then intellifent life in

> the universe will never develop past this level we're at, because as soon

> as it reaches this level the most spiritually developed of us will

> capitulate to the more violent and thus ensure that the species develops

> in that direction. That's a crime against life as I see it. (This is kinda

> OT OT at this stage I know).

>

> And is that really what karma means? I just thought it means consequences,

> basically, as opposed to some kind of inherent balance in the forces of

> good and evil in the universe, everyone getting their just deserts, as it

> seems to be perceived by some...I don't think that's what it was ever

> intended to mean. But I may be wrong.

>

> Perhaps it was the idea of an afterlife and the continuation of

> consequences earned in this life that led those people to allow themselves

> to be slaughtered...so the idea of karma taken to it's (il)logical

> conculsion when merged with the idea that life is a continuous cycle of

> death and rebirth. I.e buddhism can be approached philosophically as well

> as religiously, you don't need to buy into the religious elements, perhaps

> if you do it changes the way you treat life...as Nietzsche said, it takes

> the centre of gravity out of your own life and puts it into some idea of

> an afterlife...

>

> Just one of many angles that I attribute some weight to, I'm not at all

> black and white about any of this. I'm a utopian so I wish that things

> were different, but the realist in me doesn't see things that way...yet.

>

> Peace!

>

>

>

> > On Dec 19, 2007 7:13 AM, jon chapman <jonniespatula at hotmail.co.uk>

wrote:

> >>

> >> just 30 years each,no hanging no chair.......!  not 8. that's fair isnt

> >> it?

> >> but if it was my lad they killed,i probably wouldnt handle it too well

> >> and

> >> either slowly go insane,or i'd seek revenge big time,and before u say

> >> anything yes i know thats wrong. but i'm always wrong!

> >>

> >

> >

> > if you think its right to kill, then it is right! (no one can

> > logically argue against the things that i believe!)

> > just be prepared for the consequences...

> > the laws of karma are infallible and patient!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> >

> >

> > "due to a lack of trained trumpeters, the end of the world has been

> > postponed indefinitely..."

>

> > _______________________________________________

> > Gathering mailing list

> > Gathering at misera.net

> > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> >

>

>

> _______________________________________________

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>




-- 


"due to a lack of trained trumpeters, the end of the world has been
postponed indefinitely..."
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