[kj] punk

[Rob Moss]

For all the piss take I have done in the past I have to kind of agree. 

There was something happening in the UK anyway, look at the pub rock scene, but without Talcy Malcy going to the states and getting off on the scene there, we would not have had the orchestrated movement we had in the UK. 

The basis was different for sure. American punk came out of the post Woodstock/Vietnam war thing. Ours came out of the post war depression. 
The Ramones sang about girls. The Pistols about boredom and Anarchy. 
They were not the same thing but without Mclaren going to states, it would have been a different thing in the uk. More rooted in old British RnB. 
Bands like The stranglers and the Blockheads would have come along and done their thing but they would have been different, especially the Stranglers. 

What came after 1976/77 though was awful. The UK OI! Scene was hideous and that American punk circa 1984 was shit. Only band to move me out of America were Dead Kennedys. Rancid and their ilk leave me cold. 

Anyway. Read England's Dreaming. That is pretty much how it was. 



By the way. 

Today, saw two kids busking Eagles songs in Oxford. 
Punk failed. 

Discuss. 


On 8 Sep 2012, at 14:06, Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:


> 

> I can't believe this is still going.

> 

> Rob Moss re-invoked it as a jest, .... and it's predictably taken off again.

> 

> Listen, ask one of your justifiably-revered stalwarts of British punk -- Strummer, Vanian, Simonon, Jones, etc. etc. pick one -- and invariably *BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION* they'll say that the Yanks started it. YES, the Brits *TOOK IT SOMEWHERE ELSE AND MADE IT THEIR OWN*, ..... but it started in the States.

> 

> I'm not making it up.

> 

> 

> Alex in NYC 

> 

> 

> 

> On Sep 7, 2012, at 1:11 PM, Rheinhold Squeegee wrote:

> 

>> The Dolls date to 1971 and the Stooges to 1967. This discussion doesn't even take into account the US garage band scene of the 1960's: Seeds, Standells, Sonics, etc. Check out Lenny Kaye's "Nuggets" series for further enlightenment.

>>  

>> It is well documented that the UK punk scene was established after exposure to existing American (read: NYC) punks, i.e Ramones first gig at the Roundhouse in July '76 and Malcolm McLaren's trip to NYC in '72 where he met the NY Dolls and where he copped the ripped t-shirt and safety pin look from Richard Hell. McLaren returned to the UK in 1975, opened the "SEX" boutique and applied his learnings to the exploitation of the Sex Pistols. The majority of early UK punks were either someone who saw the Sex Pistols/Buzzcocks in a university lunchroom or pub rockers with new haircuts, a la Joe Strummer.

>>  

>> to wit:

>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvDeee14dEA

>>  

>>  

>>  

>>  

>> From: folk.devil at hotmail.com

>> To: gathering at misera.net

>> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 09:55:58 -0700

>> Subject: Re: [kj] punk

>> 

>> The Saints formed in 1975. That puts them chronologically next to the Dolls. They were Australian. What about Bolan, or the UK Garage bands of the early 70s...

>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8685349@N07/

>>  

>> From: paulwady at hotmail.com

>> To: gathering at misera.net

>> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:34:44 +0100

>> Subject: Re: [kj] punk

>> 

>> From my previous email: 

>> 

>> 1 - The very term PUNK was an AMERICANISM in the 1970's.  It was adopted by UK people around that time.  Even then lets face it, people still don't use it in Blighty for its original meaning today.  They didn't then?  It is entirely associated with a style from the late 70/s early 80/s best time of all for crude, sincere rock music.

>>  

>> 2 - There was this band called the New York Dolls.  Assume everyone here does not know them on account of Morrissey running their UK fanclub, and thus everyones kept a distance...what difference does it make??

>>  

>> 3 - James Osterberg.  Like anyone here needs to know what pseudonym he resides on the UK's bedroom walls under?  (Not forgetting Scottish trainspotters...)

>>  

>> 4 - Eddy and the Hot Rods.  Okay okay, sorry sorry.  But I had to remind y'all just how bad things where then.  WE HAD THE ****ING OSMONDS ON THE RADIO...ON TOP OF THE POPS...TV SPECIALS...LOOK IN AND THE MAGAZINES AND THE PAPERS...  This was surely the closest our generation ever got to living through the Blitz?  It was hell in there.  Hell.  You'd walk down the road and your contemporaries and those a bit older had FLARES and MULLETTS.  Me?  I still have flashbacks.  (Wake up in the middle of the night screaming CRAZY HORSES!!!  WAAAH!  WAAH!  So America does have a lot to answer for.  Salt Lake City - capitol of trauma etc).

>>  

>>  

>> I am very sorry to bring up the things we'd all rather forget.  (Donnie.  Marie.  Jesus....)  But the Sex Pistols did it their way, and we all love them for it.  They did not invent it but good god did they do it brilliantly.  Even the Rolling Stones were described as a "Dartford Delta Blues band" recently.  The Beatles were surely partially due to their living in a transatlantic seaport?  Sailors selling the lp's they'd picked up in the USA you see?  

>>  

>> So...they gave it to us...and we improved it and sold it back to them?  Tee hee.  x

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Free download album:  http://linearobsessional.bandcamp.com/album/the-terminal-beach

>> 

>> PAULWADY.COM

>> 

>>   

>> From: bq at soundgardener.co.nz

>> To: gathering at misera.net

>> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 16:35:19 +1200

>> Subject: Re: [kj] punk

>> 

>> Okay, are we all agreed on Kyuss, yeah?

>>  

>> Anyone NOT like Kyuss…? Seriously?

>>  

>> Okay let’s just put an album on….

>>  

>> NO MAN!!!

>>  

>> No, fuck’s sake, just put an alb-

>>  

>> No man it was my turn tu-

>>  

>> Fuckin, just put a FUCKIN album on man

>>  

>> Fuckin not Soundga-

>>  

>> What?! Fuckin….why not? It’s fuckin awes-

>>  

>> NOT FUCKING SOUNDGARDEN, MAAAAAN!!!!! O-KAY?!?!?!?!

>> 

>> Jesus.

>> What.

>> EVER.

>>  

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