[kj] punk

[Alexander Smith]

I'm not going to get sucked into this further. You can cite "England's  
Dreaming" in much the same way I can cite "Please Kill Me."

Alex in NYC


On Sep 8, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Rob Moss wrote:


> For all the piss take I have done in the past I have to kind of agree.

>

> There was something happening in the UK anyway, look at the pub rock  

> scene, but without Talcy Malcy going to the states and getting off  

> on the scene there, we would not have had the orchestrated movement  

> we had in the UK.

>

> The basis was different for sure. American punk came out of the post  

> Woodstock/Vietnam war thing. Ours came out of the post war depression.

> The Ramones sang about girls. The Pistols about boredom and Anarchy.

> They were not the same thing but without Mclaren going to states, it  

> would have been a different thing in the uk. More rooted in old  

> British RnB.

> Bands like The stranglers and the Blockheads would have come along  

> and done their thing but they would have been different, especially  

> the Stranglers.

>

> What came after 1976/77 though was awful. The UK OI! Scene was  

> hideous and that American punk circa 1984 was shit. Only band to  

> move me out of America were Dead Kennedys. Rancid and their ilk  

> leave me cold.

>

> Anyway. Read England's Dreaming. That is pretty much how it was.

>

>

>

> By the way.

>

> Today, saw two kids busking Eagles songs in Oxford.

> Punk failed.

>

> Discuss.

>

>

> On 8 Sep 2012, at 14:06, Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>  

> wrote:

>

>>

>> I can't believe this is still going.

>>

>> Rob Moss re-invoked it as a jest, .... and it's predictably taken  

>> off again.

>>

>> Listen, ask one of your justifiably-revered stalwarts of British  

>> punk -- Strummer, Vanian, Simonon, Jones, etc. etc. pick one -- and  

>> invariably *BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION* they'll say that the Yanks  

>> started it. YES, the Brits *TOOK IT SOMEWHERE ELSE AND MADE IT  

>> THEIR OWN*, ..... but it started in the States.

>>

>> I'm not making it up.

>>

>>

>> Alex in NYC

>>

>>

>>

>> On Sep 7, 2012, at 1:11 PM, Rheinhold Squeegee wrote:

>>

>>> The Dolls date to 1971 and the Stooges to 1967. This discussion  

>>> doesn't even take into account the US garage band scene of the  

>>> 1960's: Seeds, Standells, Sonics, etc. Check out Lenny Kaye's  

>>> "Nuggets" series for further enlightenment.

>>>

>>> It is well documented that the UK punk scene was established after  

>>> exposure to existing American (read: NYC) punks, i.e Ramones first  

>>> gig at the Roundhouse in July '76 and Malcolm McLaren's trip to  

>>> NYC in '72 where he met the NY Dolls and where he copped the  

>>> ripped t-shirt and safety pin look from Richard Hell. McLaren  

>>> returned to the UK in 1975, opened the "SEX" boutique and applied  

>>> his learnings to the exploitation of the Sex Pistols. The majority  

>>> of early UK punks were either someone who saw the Sex Pistols/ 

>>> Buzzcocks in a university lunchroom or pub rockers with new  

>>> haircuts, a la Joe Strummer.

>>>

>>> to wit:

>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvDeee14dEA

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> From: folk.devil at hotmail.com

>>> To: gathering at misera.net

>>> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 09:55:58 -0700

>>> Subject: Re: [kj] punk

>>>

>>> The Saints formed in 1975. That puts them chronologically next to  

>>> the Dolls. They were Australian. What about Bolan, or the UK  

>>> Garage bands of the early 70s...

>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8685349@N07/

>>>

>>> From: paulwady at hotmail.com

>>> To: gathering at misera.net

>>> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:34:44 +0100

>>> Subject: Re: [kj] punk

>>>

>>> From my previous email:

>>>

>>> 1 - The very term PUNK was an AMERICANISM in the 1970's.  It was  

>>> adopted by UK people around that time.  Even then lets face it,  

>>> people still don't use it in Blighty for its original meaning  

>>> today.  They didn't then?  It is entirely associated with a style  

>>> from the late 70/s early 80/s best time of all for crude, sincere  

>>> rock music.

>>>

>>> 2 - There was this band called the New York Dolls.  Assume  

>>> everyone here does not know them on account of Morrissey running  

>>> their UK fanclub, and thus everyones kept a distance...what  

>>> difference does it make??

>>>

>>> 3 - James Osterberg.  Like anyone here needs to know what  

>>> pseudonym he resides on the UK's bedroom walls under?  (Not  

>>> forgetting Scottish trainspotters...)

>>>

>>> 4 - Eddy and the Hot Rods.  Okay okay, sorry sorry.  But I had to  

>>> remind y'all just how bad things where then.  WE HAD THE ****ING  

>>> OSMONDS ON THE RADIO...ON TOP OF THE POPS...TV SPECIALS...LOOK IN  

>>> AND THE MAGAZINES AND THE PAPERS...  This was surely the closest  

>>> our generation ever got to living through the Blitz?  It was hell  

>>> in there.  Hell.  You'd walk down the road and your contemporaries  

>>> and those a bit older had FLARES and MULLETTS.  Me?  I still have  

>>> flashbacks.  (Wake up in the middle of the night screaming CRAZY  

>>> HORSES!!!  WAAAH!  WAAH!  So America does have a lot to answer  

>>> for.  Salt Lake City - capitol of trauma etc).

>>>

>>>

>>> I am very sorry to bring up the things we'd all rather forget.   

>>> (Donnie.  Marie.  Jesus....)  But the Sex Pistols did it their  

>>> way, and we all love them for it.  They did not invent it but good  

>>> god did they do it brilliantly.  Even the Rolling Stones were  

>>> described as a "Dartford Delta Blues band" recently.  The Beatles  

>>> were surely partially due to their living in a transatlantic  

>>> seaport?  Sailors selling the lp's they'd picked up in the USA you  

>>> see?

>>>

>>> So...they gave it to us...and we improved it and sold it back to  

>>> them?  Tee hee.  x

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Free download album:  http://linearobsessional.bandcamp.com/album/the-terminal-beach

>>>

>>> PAULWADY.COM

>>>

>>>

>>> From: bq at soundgardener.co.nz

>>> To: gathering at misera.net

>>> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 16:35:19 +1200

>>> Subject: Re: [kj] punk

>>>

>>> Okay, are we all agreed on Kyuss, yeah?

>>>

>>> Anyone NOT like Kyuss…? Seriously?

>>>

>>> Okay let’s just put an album on….

>>>

>>> NO MAN!!!

>>>

>>> No, fuck’s sake, just put an alb-

>>>

>>> No man it was my turn tu-

>>>

>>> Fuckin, just put a FUCKIN album on man

>>>

>>> Fuckin not Soundga-

>>>

>>> What?! Fuckin….why not? It’s fuckin awes-

>>>

>>> NOT FUCKING SOUNDGARDEN, MAAAAAN!!!!! O-KAY?!?!?!?!

>>>

>>> Jesus.

>>> What.

>>> EVER.

>>>

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