[kj] Trump

Mon Nov 14 20:55:05 EST 2016

What actually happened to get Trump elected? I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin
these days. Not that it gives me any special insight, but this place is
somewhat of a microcosm of the U.S. electorate, and this state has exactly
the range of voters that gave Trump's margin in the electoral college. They
live in suburbs and small towns. They indentify as independent and lean
somewhat conservative. They didn't necessarily like Trump, but they hated
Clinton. A critical number of them voted for Obama. Other people's racism
does not affect their lives or most of their neighbors. Ethnic friction is
not a day-to-day consideration in the same way that it is in the urban
center. As it happened, turnout in the city for Clinton was also down a
great deal. She inspired nobody, and barely tried to gin them up.

As I'm about 4 days late on this, obviously there isn't time (this time) to
get into a whole thing about the nature of counter-culture and the
responsibilities that go with it.

I do have one daughter who is a little over 2 years. Played some of the
earlier Foetus singles last week, which she thinks are hilarious.

--Mark

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 4:51 PM, GREG SLAWSON <gregslawson at msn.com> wrote:

> Mine likes Taylor Swift but will listen to new Descendents and New Order
> CDs
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:48 PM, Paul <dubecho at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My daughter is the same. I think it was her way to rebel, she'd sooner
> listen to a Now! that's what I call music volume whatever or a Beyoncé
> album, than what her Dad calls "real music" ...lol Can't win 'em all : )
> Son is a music producer and DJ, check his stuff here
> https://soundcloud.com/major-grave may not be everyones cup of tea, but
> he enjoys it and has made a name for himself in that genre. He has met Jaz
> too lol I'd pre warned him though, he'll promise you anything you want to
> hear and sure enough Jaz was offering to bring him over to his studio in
> Prague ...lol
>
> On 10 November 2016 at 22:40, Brian Whitehead <bawhitehead at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ive got a 13 year old daughter. I try and introduce her to interesting
>> music but she's not having any of it.
>>
>> On 10 Nov 2016 22:13, "Alex Smith" <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Show of hands, please -- anyone here have any children? Just out of
>>> curiosity.
>>>
>>> Alex in NYC
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rheinhold Squeegee
>>> Sent: Nov 10, 2016 4:12 PM
>>> To: Alex Smith , "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
>>> Subject: Re: [kj] Trump
>>>
>>> Which logical fallacy to start with... Maybe we should just go straight
>>> to confirmation bias.
>>>
>>>
>>> We get it; racism is bad. But to you it's the Worst Thing. And anyone
>>> that you believe contributes to the Worst Thing must also be the Worst
>>> Thing. HRC is many things: self-loathing woman; self-loathing white person;
>>> liar; exploiter; criminal, but she's not a racist, therefore she's not the
>>> Worst Thing.
>>>
>>>
>>> The anti-Trump crowd has learned nothing from yesterday. Instead,
>>> they're doubling down on the vitriolic rhetoric and the end result will be
>>> eight years of Trump instead of four. Better yet, assassinate him and lock
>>> things down for the next 20 years.
>>>
>>>
>>> Strong work. Keep it up.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Gathering <gathering-bounces at misera.net> on behalf of Alex
>>> Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2016 2:03:40 PM
>>> *To:* A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!); 'A list about
>>> all things Killing Joke (the band!)'
>>> *Subject:* Re: [kj] Trump
>>>
>>>
>>> To those who maintain that HRC and Trump were equally bad, please
>>> realize that for her myriad failings, Clinton isn't the one that's
>>> inspiring the type of bullshit detailed in this link...
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656
>>>
>>> Alex in NYC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Mike Cooper
>>> Sent: Nov 10, 2016 2:13 PM
>>> To: "'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)'"
>>> Subject: Re: [kj] Trump
>>>
>>> Apologies for putting an opinion forward Brendan and for putting me in
>>> my place.  It’s true I am stupid, have no idea of anything nor know what
>>> the holy fuck I am on about.  Again people were not voting for her husband
>>> and she was exonerated for the emails rightly or wrongly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you read my email you will notice that like Alex I to do not like
>>> Clinton, but felt she is infinitely preferable to a bloke whose sole goal
>>> is to divide and rule, openly racist, lies, bullies and intimidates people
>>> without taking people for granted but is this not exactly what most
>>> gatherers I would imagine oppose.  Same with the outcome of Brexit
>>> something that will affect me, my family and friends now and certainly in
>>> the years to come.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But again Brendan answer my question how is Trump going to deal with
>>> people who are different?  Who oppose things he does?  Who exercise their
>>> democratic right to protest, oppose, speak out etc.  I did not see him
>>> denounce people at his rallies openly attacking people who do not support
>>> him.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sometimes Brendan you sadly have to pick the lesser of two evils,  but I
>>> still agree with Alex 100%.  You’ll have to deal with us and others in the
>>> same way we have to deal with him being in power.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] *On Behalf Of *Brendan
>>> Quinn
>>> *Sent:* 10 November 2016 11:27
>>> *To:* 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)' <
>>> gathering at misera.net>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [kj] Trump
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ‘Emails and a shit husband’ – how in hell can you make an accurate
>>> comparison when you haven’t got the foggiest, faintest glimmer of an idea
>>> what the holy fuck you’re on about?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net
>>> <gathering-bounces at misera.net>] *On Behalf Of *Mike Cooper
>>> *Sent:* Friday, 11 November 2016 12:21 a.m.
>>> *To:* 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)' <
>>> gathering at misera.net>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [kj] Trump
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Brendan for reminding me that being part of the supposed
>>> counter-culture actually means supporting a right-wing, racist,
>>> homophobic, sexist, arrogant, selfish, ego maniac.  Silly me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So as part of my “new” counter-culture actions,  tonight I am going to
>>> go to my local Mexican restaurant and ask the waiters to leave the UK as
>>> they are clearly all rapists.  Then I am going to go to my local pub and
>>> grab a few bar maids by the pussy because that is fine to do!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As a counter-culture fanatic and a self-employed person I am from now
>>> not going to pay any tax either.  Tax is for idiots and successful business
>>> men but maybe I will get bailed out by some rich Saudi’s.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As a counter-culture fanatic I will also now no longer listen to anyone
>>> else, take advice and kick the shit out of anyone who dares to disagree
>>> with me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For the record you will probably won’t find one Gatherer who is fond of
>>> Clinton in anyway but as for options between the two – come on?  Emails and
>>> a shit husband over a Nazi what do you expect people to say?  But the fact
>>> that most people wanted a horrendous character like Clinton to win says it
>>> all about Trump.  But answer one question what do you really think Trump
>>> will make of counter-culture, alternative views, freedom of expression,
>>> thought, music, film etc.  Come on let me know?  Coz as far as I am
>>> concerned that side of things in America is fucked – from now on anyone
>>> with a slightly opposing point of view is going to be attacked, ridiculed
>>> and in the firing line in exactly the same way the post Brexit arse wiping
>>> right wing bigots now feel is okay to tell any non –white or non-English
>>> person to “get out of my country”.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As for being clueless about Brexit whilst the EU is far from perfect but
>>> it has pretty much already cost my brother his job as a UK chemist working
>>> in Sweden on a drug that cures cancer – his position to stay is becoming
>>> untenable with the company as the funding for this work is from the EU.
>>> Also with regard to Brexit my own profession is reliant of the millions of
>>> pounds from the ERDF which is two years will go.  That means £178 million
>>> allocated to the economically poor black country for small business,
>>> infrastructure, transport, education and training, grants and environmental
>>> and community improvements WILL GO along with thousands of potential jobs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But as with Trump and Clinton, Farage et al lied.  They lied about
>>> everything and the masses bought it.  As I said to a UKIP supporting
>>> acquaintance in the pub at the weekend who said Corbyns policies would
>>> bankrupt the country – “won’t he have an extra £350m a day to spend”?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> EU has a lot of problems Brendan but I for one believe in communication,
>>> strategic thinking on the environment, global issues, fishing, migration
>>> and as someone who believes in counter-culture I believe in the ability,
>>> choice and personal freedom to go where the fuck I fucking like without
>>> someone telling me I can’t.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As for the press everyone buys the press they choose to read. But in the
>>> UK 85% of ours is owned by three people – all right wing, tax dodging c***s
>>> basically who like US will influence people to suit themselves.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As for the emails do you not think Russia was behind that with Assange
>>> to bring in Trump – after all an America in turmoil is better for them and
>>> China.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Enjoy a Trump led America – perhaps you will now all get what you
>>> deserve but I for one seriously hope not.  But I also worry about where the
>>> world goes from here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net
>>> <gathering-bounces at misera.net>] *On Behalf Of *Brendan Quinn
>>> *Sent:* 10 November 2016 10:16
>>> *To:* 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)' <
>>> gathering at misera.net>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [kj] Trump
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *That said, as Obama pointed out, the peaceful transition from one
>>> president to another - no matter how much they disagree - is the hallmark
>>> of democracy.*
>>>
>>> BULLSHIT! Stop buying into platitudes and dead metaphors…and READ WHAT
>>> YOU JUST WROTE. So the most laudable act of a democratic citizen is to
>>> ensure the peaceful transition of power from one despot to another?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Obama’s a fucking joke, he’s flushed the US Constitution down the
>>> shitter and here you are lapping up his GOBSHITE DRIVEL.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The GroupThink / meme replication going on is beyond a fucking joke for
>>> a group of supposed counter-culture / free thinkers / subversives /
>>> whatever…I’m so sick of this false fucking narrative.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribune_of_the_Plebs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The checks and balances on power have utterly gone down the gurgler, how
>>> anyone in the US could mention they’re a journalist without blushing is
>>> totally beyond me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net
>>> <gathering-bounces at misera.net>] *On Behalf Of *jpwhkj--- via Gathering
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 10 November 2016 10:55 p.m.
>>> *To:* gathering at misera.net
>>> *Cc:* jpwhkj at aol.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [kj] Trump
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes - Margaret Thatcher promised to bring unity where there was discord,
>>> Dubya's speech in 2000 was similarly reconciliatory.  So it's standard
>>> stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That said, as Obama pointed out, the peaceful transition from one
>>> president to another - no matter how much they disagree - is the hallmark
>>> of democracy.  So, much as I regret the result, and its likely impact on
>>> America and the rest of the world, it's democracy folks.  Just gotta work
>>> harder to make the world a better place - more intelligent and more
>>> informed, more thoughtful, kinder.  Most of us can't be Mandela, MLK, etc,
>>> but we all have the opportunity to make the world a bit better tomorrow
>>> than it is today.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But yeah, I'm ashamed of the bigotry, hatred, & narrow-mindedness that's
>>> been tapped into and legitimised.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jamie
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Paul Rangecroft <paul.rangecroft at gmail.com>
>>> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <
>>> gathering at misera.net>
>>> Sent: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 6:10
>>> Subject: Re: [kj] Trump
>>>
>>> Thank you, Alex, for brilliantly summing up how I feel. Most victors
>>> give those reconciliatory sort of acceptance speeches. I don't think they
>>> mean much. The morally-bankrupt thundercunt's ego will be through the White
>>> House roof. What did he have to do to lose? This election would have been
>>> more dignified if the respective parties had put up an actual donkey and
>>> elephant as candidates. I don't understand people anymore. Brexit was
>>> embarrassing but this has... well, Trumped it. The ancient Chinese could
>>> never have imagined times so "interesting". So many Killing Joke lyrics
>>> come to mind I don't know which one to quote. We're fucked. Democracy: ya
>>> foired! On 11/9/16, Alex Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote: > I
>>> realize there are some sharp differences of opinion here on the Gathering,
>>> > but as someone who fucking LIVES here, let me just say that I am >
>>> incalculably ashamed to be an American today. > > Regardless of your stance
>>> on policy -- not that Trump ever actually > discussed any tangible policies
>>> -- how anyone could spend five minutes > listening to that fatuous bag of
>>> excitement attempt to string coherent > sentence together and think: "yes,
>>> that man should hold the most powerful > office in the so-called Free
>>> World" is FUCKING STAGGERINGLY BEYOND MY > COMPREHENSION. > > If you think
>>> he's a champion for the unsung ---> You are FUCKING FOOLING > yourselves.
>>> He DOES NOT CARE about you, and that will doubtlessly become > obvious in
>>> short, catastrophic order. > > > > If you think he's going to "shake things
>>> up" in Washington -----> You are a > fucking idiot. Putting Trump in the
>>> White House is like putting a lit > firecracker in a broken toaster. Is it
>>> going to shake things up? You betcha. > Is it going to fix anything? NOPE.
>>> > > The message we are sending to the world and to OUR OWN CHILDREN is that
>>> > racism, antisemitism, proud anti-intellectualism, nativism, white >
>>> supremacist ideals, misogyny, sexism, homophobia, the diminishment of a >
>>> woman's right to choose, bullying, demagoguery, incitement of violence, >
>>> avarice, wanton tax evasion, totalitarianism, climate change denial and >
>>> creationism ARE ALL PERFECTLY OKAY. > > If you're an American who voted for
>>> him here on the Gathering, you have > nothing but my undying contempt, and
>>> may the god of your choice forgive you, > because I sure as FUCK will not.
>>> > > I have many friends who are striving to make sense of this and
>>> espousing > messages of solidarity, fortitude and hope. I realize that's
>>> the correct > thing to do, and that in attempting same, I may find solace
>>> and comfort in > the words and actions of the many like minds, but I AM NOT
>>> THERE YET. > NOWHERE CLOSE. > > Being a dyed-in-the-wool native New Yorker,
>>> I have never had a great amount > of faith in my fellow American, because I
>>> am inherently a smug fucking snob, > and I am PERFECTLY OKAY WITH THAT.
>>> But, again, DO NOT BE FOOLED!! Trump > doesn't give fuck about the concerns
>>> of the American heartland's working > families. They were exploited and
>>> manipulated by his slavish appeals to the > lowest common denominator. > >
>>> It's simply pathetic. I am sickened to the very core. > > FUCK YOU,
>>> America. > > -Alex in NYC- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
>>> -----Original Message----- >> From: Christophe Barry >> Sent: Nov 9, 2016
>>> 11:57 AM >> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" >>
>>> Subject: Re: [kj] Trump >> >> F*ckin’ ada >> >> De : Gathering <gathering-
>>> bounces at misera.net> on behalf of andreas misera >> via Gathering <
>>> gathering at misera.net> >> Répondre à : andreas misera <
>>> andreasmisera at yahoo.de>, "A list about all >> things Killing Joke (the
>>> band!)" <gathering at misera.net> >> Date : mercredi 9 novembre 2016 09:58
>>> >> À : "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" >> <
>>> gathering at misera.net> >> Cc : andreas misera <andreasmisera at yahoo.de>, "
>>> jpwhkj at aol.com" >> <jpwhkj at aol.com> >> Objet : Re: [kj] Trump >> >>
>>> Germans could say "Ach Du Scheiße" about that result. >> >> >> Rob Moss <
>>> rob.moss at gmx.com> schrieb am 12:44 Mittwoch, 9.November 2016: >> >> >>
>>> That's an "English" way of putting it!! >> >> Other words considered could
>>> be >> >> Gosh >> Golly >> my Lord! >> Steady on old chap! >> >> >> >> What
>>> a day Gatherers. What a day. >> >> >> On 9 Nov 2016, at 09:19, jpwhkj---
>>> via Gathering <gathering at misera.net> >> wrote: >> >>> Blimey. >>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gathering
>>> mailing list >>> Gathering at misera.net >>> https://pairlist4.pair.net/mai
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