[kj] Trump

[B. Oliver Sheppard]

Trump as president means Jaz will especially want to tour the US now,
right? I kid. I've pretty much kissed goodbye any chance of seeing them
live from now on in the US. :(

-0liver

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 7:55 PM, Mark Kolmar <mkolmar at gmail.com> wrote:

> What actually happened to get Trump elected? I live in Milwaukee,
> Wisconsin these days. Not that it gives me any special insight, but this
> place is somewhat of a microcosm of the U.S. electorate, and this state has
> exactly the range of voters that gave Trump's margin in the electoral
> college. They live in suburbs and small towns. They indentify as
> independent and lean somewhat conservative. They didn't necessarily like
> Trump, but they hated Clinton. A critical number of them voted for Obama.
> Other people's racism does not affect their lives or most of their
> neighbors. Ethnic friction is not a day-to-day consideration in the same
> way that it is in the urban center. As it happened, turnout in the city for
> Clinton was also down a great deal. She inspired nobody, and barely tried
> to gin them up.
>
> As I'm about 4 days late on this, obviously there isn't time (this time)
> to get into a whole thing about the nature of counter-culture and the
> responsibilities that go with it.
>
> I do have one daughter who is a little over 2 years. Played some of the
> earlier Foetus singles last week, which she thinks are hilarious.
>
> --Mark
>
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 4:51 PM, GREG SLAWSON <gregslawson at msn.com> wrote:
>
>> Mine likes Taylor Swift but will listen to new Descendents and New Order
>> CDs
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 5:48 PM, Paul <dubecho at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> My daughter is the same. I think it was her way to rebel, she'd sooner
>> listen to a Now! that's what I call music volume whatever or a Beyoncé
>> album, than what her Dad calls "real music" ...lol Can't win 'em all : )
>> Son is a music producer and DJ, check his stuff here
>> https://soundcloud.com/major-grave may not be everyones cup of tea, but
>> he enjoys it and has made a name for himself in that genre. He has met Jaz
>> too lol I'd pre warned him though, he'll promise you anything you want to
>> hear and sure enough Jaz was offering to bring him over to his studio in
>> Prague ...lol
>>
>> On 10 November 2016 at 22:40, Brian Whitehead <bawhitehead at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ive got a 13 year old daughter. I try and introduce her to interesting
>>> music but she's not having any of it.
>>>
>>> On 10 Nov 2016 22:13, "Alex Smith" <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Show of hands, please -- anyone here have any children? Just out of
>>>> curiosity.
>>>>
>>>> Alex in NYC
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Rheinhold Squeegee
>>>> Sent: Nov 10, 2016 4:12 PM
>>>> To: Alex Smith , "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] Trump
>>>>
>>>> Which logical fallacy to start with... Maybe we should just go straight
>>>> to confirmation bias.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We get it; racism is bad. But to you it's the Worst Thing. And anyone
>>>> that you believe contributes to the Worst Thing must also be the Worst
>>>> Thing. HRC is many things: self-loathing woman; self-loathing white person;
>>>> liar; exploiter; criminal, but she's not a racist, therefore she's not the
>>>> Worst Thing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The anti-Trump crowd has learned nothing from yesterday. Instead,
>>>> they're doubling down on the vitriolic rhetoric and the end result will be
>>>> eight years of Trump instead of four. Better yet, assassinate him and lock
>>>> things down for the next 20 years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Strong work. Keep it up.
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Gathering <gathering-bounces at misera.net> on behalf of Alex
>>>> Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2016 2:03:40 PM
>>>> *To:* A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!); 'A list about
>>>> all things Killing Joke (the band!)'
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [kj] Trump
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To those who maintain that HRC and Trump were equally bad, please
>>>> realize that for her myriad failings, Clinton isn't the one that's
>>>> inspiring the type of bullshit detailed in this link...
>>>>
>>>> https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656
>>>>
>>>> Alex in NYC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Mike Cooper
>>>> Sent: Nov 10, 2016 2:13 PM
>>>> To: "'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)'"
>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] Trump
>>>>
>>>> Apologies for putting an opinion forward Brendan and for putting me in
>>>> my place.  It’s true I am stupid, have no idea of anything nor know what
>>>> the holy fuck I am on about.  Again people were not voting for her husband
>>>> and she was exonerated for the emails rightly or wrongly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you read my email you will notice that like Alex I to do not like
>>>> Clinton, but felt she is infinitely preferable to a bloke whose sole goal
>>>> is to divide and rule, openly racist, lies, bullies and intimidates people
>>>> without taking people for granted but is this not exactly what most
>>>> gatherers I would imagine oppose.  Same with the outcome of Brexit
>>>> something that will affect me, my family and friends now and certainly in
>>>> the years to come.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But again Brendan answer my question how is Trump going to deal with
>>>> people who are different?  Who oppose things he does?  Who exercise their
>>>> democratic right to protest, oppose, speak out etc.  I did not see him
>>>> denounce people at his rallies openly attacking people who do not support
>>>> him.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes Brendan you sadly have to pick the lesser of two evils,  but
>>>> I still agree with Alex 100%.  You’ll have to deal with us and others in
>>>> the same way we have to deal with him being in power.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] *On Behalf Of *Brendan
>>>> Quinn
>>>> *Sent:* 10 November 2016 11:27
>>>> *To:* 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)' <
>>>> gathering at misera.net>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [kj] Trump
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ‘Emails and a shit husband’ – how in hell can you make an accurate
>>>> comparison when you haven’t got the foggiest, faintest glimmer of an idea
>>>> what the holy fuck you’re on about?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net
>>>> <gathering-bounces at misera.net>] *On Behalf Of *Mike Cooper
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, 11 November 2016 12:21 a.m.
>>>> *To:* 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)' <
>>>> gathering at misera.net>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [kj] Trump
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Brendan for reminding me that being part of the supposed
>>>> counter-culture actually means supporting a right-wing, racist,
>>>> homophobic, sexist, arrogant, selfish, ego maniac.  Silly me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So as part of my “new” counter-culture actions,  tonight I am going to
>>>> go to my local Mexican restaurant and ask the waiters to leave the UK as
>>>> they are clearly all rapists.  Then I am going to go to my local pub and
>>>> grab a few bar maids by the pussy because that is fine to do!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As a counter-culture fanatic and a self-employed person I am from now
>>>> not going to pay any tax either.  Tax is for idiots and successful business
>>>> men but maybe I will get bailed out by some rich Saudi’s.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As a counter-culture fanatic I will also now no longer listen to anyone
>>>> else, take advice and kick the shit out of anyone who dares to disagree
>>>> with me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For the record you will probably won’t find one Gatherer who is fond of
>>>> Clinton in anyway but as for options between the two – come on?  Emails and
>>>> a shit husband over a Nazi what do you expect people to say?  But the fact
>>>> that most people wanted a horrendous character like Clinton to win says it
>>>> all about Trump.  But answer one question what do you really think Trump
>>>> will make of counter-culture, alternative views, freedom of expression,
>>>> thought, music, film etc.  Come on let me know?  Coz as far as I am
>>>> concerned that side of things in America is fucked – from now on anyone
>>>> with a slightly opposing point of view is going to be attacked, ridiculed
>>>> and in the firing line in exactly the same way the post Brexit arse wiping
>>>> right wing bigots now feel is okay to tell any non –white or non-English
>>>> person to “get out of my country”.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As for being clueless about Brexit whilst the EU is far from perfect
>>>> but it has pretty much already cost my brother his job as a UK chemist
>>>> working in Sweden on a drug that cures cancer – his position to stay is
>>>> becoming untenable with the company as the funding for this work is from
>>>> the EU.  Also with regard to Brexit my own profession is reliant of the
>>>> millions of pounds from the ERDF which is two years will go.  That means
>>>> £178 million allocated to the economically poor black country for small
>>>> business, infrastructure, transport, education and training, grants and
>>>> environmental and community improvements WILL GO along with thousands of
>>>> potential jobs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But as with Trump and Clinton, Farage et al lied.  They lied about
>>>> everything and the masses bought it.  As I said to a UKIP supporting
>>>> acquaintance in the pub at the weekend who said Corbyns policies would
>>>> bankrupt the country – “won’t he have an extra £350m a day to spend”?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> EU has a lot of problems Brendan but I for one believe in
>>>> communication, strategic thinking on the environment, global issues,
>>>> fishing, migration and as someone who believes in counter-culture I believe
>>>> in the ability, choice and personal freedom to go where the fuck I fucking
>>>> like without someone telling me I can’t.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As for the press everyone buys the press they choose to read. But in
>>>> the UK 85% of ours is owned by three people – all right wing, tax dodging
>>>> c***s basically who like US will influence people to suit themselves.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As for the emails do you not think Russia was behind that with Assange
>>>> to bring in Trump – after all an America in turmoil is better for them and
>>>> China.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Enjoy a Trump led America – perhaps you will now all get what you
>>>> deserve but I for one seriously hope not.  But I also worry about where the
>>>> world goes from here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net
>>>> <gathering-bounces at misera.net>] *On Behalf Of *Brendan Quinn
>>>> *Sent:* 10 November 2016 10:16
>>>> *To:* 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)' <
>>>> gathering at misera.net>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [kj] Trump
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *That said, as Obama pointed out, the peaceful transition from one
>>>> president to another - no matter how much they disagree - is the hallmark
>>>> of democracy.*
>>>>
>>>> BULLSHIT! Stop buying into platitudes and dead metaphors…and READ WHAT
>>>> YOU JUST WROTE. So the most laudable act of a democratic citizen is to
>>>> ensure the peaceful transition of power from one despot to another?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Obama’s a fucking joke, he’s flushed the US Constitution down the
>>>> shitter and here you are lapping up his GOBSHITE DRIVEL.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The GroupThink / meme replication going on is beyond a fucking joke for
>>>> a group of supposed counter-culture / free thinkers / subversives /
>>>> whatever…I’m so sick of this false fucking narrative.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribune_of_the_Plebs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The checks and balances on power have utterly gone down the gurgler,
>>>> how anyone in the US could mention they’re a journalist without blushing is
>>>> totally beyond me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net
>>>> <gathering-bounces at misera.net>] *On Behalf Of *jpwhkj--- via Gathering
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 10 November 2016 10:55 p.m.
>>>> *To:* gathering at misera.net
>>>> *Cc:* jpwhkj at aol.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [kj] Trump
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes - Margaret Thatcher promised to bring unity where there was
>>>> discord, Dubya's speech in 2000 was similarly reconciliatory.  So it's
>>>> standard stuff.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That said, as Obama pointed out, the peaceful transition from one
>>>> president to another - no matter how much they disagree - is the hallmark
>>>> of democracy.  So, much as I regret the result, and its likely impact on
>>>> America and the rest of the world, it's democracy folks.  Just gotta work
>>>> harder to make the world a better place - more intelligent and more
>>>> informed, more thoughtful, kinder.  Most of us can't be Mandela, MLK, etc,
>>>> but we all have the opportunity to make the world a bit better tomorrow
>>>> than it is today.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But yeah, I'm ashamed of the bigotry, hatred, & narrow-mindedness
>>>> that's been tapped into and legitimised.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jamie
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Paul Rangecroft <paul.rangecroft at gmail.com>
>>>> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <
>>>> gathering at misera.net>
>>>> Sent: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 6:10
>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] Trump
>>>>
>>>> Thank you, Alex, for brilliantly summing up how I feel. Most victors
>>>> give those reconciliatory sort of acceptance speeches. I don't think they
>>>> mean much. The morally-bankrupt thundercunt's ego will be through the White
>>>> House roof. What did he have to do to lose? This election would have been
>>>> more dignified if the respective parties had put up an actual donkey and
>>>> elephant as candidates. I don't understand people anymore. Brexit was
>>>> embarrassing but this has... well, Trumped it. The ancient Chinese could
>>>> never have imagined times so "interesting". So many Killing Joke lyrics
>>>> come to mind I don't know which one to quote. We're fucked. Democracy: ya
>>>> foired! On 11/9/16, Alex Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote: > I
>>>> realize there are some sharp differences of opinion here on the Gathering,
>>>> > but as someone who fucking LIVES here, let me just say that I am >
>>>> incalculably ashamed to be an American today. > > Regardless of your stance
>>>> on policy -- not that Trump ever actually > discussed any tangible policies
>>>> -- how anyone could spend five minutes > listening to that fatuous bag of
>>>> excitement attempt to string coherent > sentence together and think: "yes,
>>>> that man should hold the most powerful > office in the so-called Free
>>>> World" is FUCKING STAGGERINGLY BEYOND MY > COMPREHENSION. > > If you think
>>>> he's a champion for the unsung ---> You are FUCKING FOOLING > yourselves.
>>>> He DOES NOT CARE about you, and that will doubtlessly become > obvious in
>>>> short, catastrophic order. > > > > If you think he's going to "shake things
>>>> up" in Washington -----> You are a > fucking idiot. Putting Trump in the
>>>> White House is like putting a lit > firecracker in a broken toaster. Is it
>>>> going to shake things up? You betcha. > Is it going to fix anything? NOPE.
>>>> > > The message we are sending to the world and to OUR OWN CHILDREN is that
>>>> > racism, antisemitism, proud anti-intellectualism, nativism, white >
>>>> supremacist ideals, misogyny, sexism, homophobia, the diminishment of a >
>>>> woman's right to choose, bullying, demagoguery, incitement of violence, >
>>>> avarice, wanton tax evasion, totalitarianism, climate change denial and >
>>>> creationism ARE ALL PERFECTLY OKAY. > > If you're an American who voted for
>>>> him here on the Gathering, you have > nothing but my undying contempt, and
>>>> may the god of your choice forgive you, > because I sure as FUCK will not.
>>>> > > I have many friends who are striving to make sense of this and
>>>> espousing > messages of solidarity, fortitude and hope. I realize that's
>>>> the correct > thing to do, and that in attempting same, I may find solace
>>>> and comfort in > the words and actions of the many like minds, but I AM NOT
>>>> THERE YET. > NOWHERE CLOSE. > > Being a dyed-in-the-wool native New Yorker,
>>>> I have never had a great amount > of faith in my fellow American, because I
>>>> am inherently a smug fucking snob, > and I am PERFECTLY OKAY WITH THAT.
>>>> But, again, DO NOT BE FOOLED!! Trump > doesn't give fuck about the concerns
>>>> of the American heartland's working > families. They were exploited and
>>>> manipulated by his slavish appeals to the > lowest common denominator. > >
>>>> It's simply pathetic. I am sickened to the very core. > > FUCK YOU,
>>>> America. > > -Alex in NYC- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
>>>> -----Original Message----- >> From: Christophe Barry >> Sent: Nov 9, 2016
>>>> 11:57 AM >> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" >>
>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] Trump >> >> F*ckin’ ada >> >> De : Gathering <gathering-
>>>> bounces at misera.net> on behalf of andreas misera >> via Gathering <
>>>> gathering at misera.net> >> Répondre à : andreas misera <
>>>> andreasmisera at yahoo.de>, "A list about all >> things Killing Joke (the
>>>> band!)" <gathering at misera.net> >> Date : mercredi 9 novembre 2016
>>>> 09:58 >> À : "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" >> <
>>>> gathering at misera.net> >> Cc : andreas misera <andreasmisera at yahoo.de>,
>>>> "jpwhkj at aol.com" >> <jpwhkj at aol.com> >> Objet : Re: [kj] Trump >> >>
>>>> Germans could say "Ach Du Scheiße" about that result. >> >> >> Rob Moss <
>>>> rob.moss at gmx.com> schrieb am 12:44 Mittwoch, 9.November 2016: >> >> >>
>>>> That's an "English" way of putting it!! >> >> Other words considered could
>>>> be >> >> Gosh >> Golly >> my Lord! >> Steady on old chap! >> >> >> >> What
>>>> a day Gatherers. What a day. >> >> >> On 9 Nov 2016, at 09:19, jpwhkj---
>>>> via Gathering <gathering at misera.net> >> wrote: >> >>> Blimey. >>> >>>
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gathering
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