[kj] OT: The great Punk Debate

[Neil Perry]

Result!
N

 --- Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote: 
> 
> "They may have come first, but they never really got
> it..."
> 
> *THEY INVENTED IT, YOU SLACKJAWED, DENIAL-ADDICTED
> GOONS!*
> 
> Alex in NYC
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, October 17, 2004, at 11:14 PM, Neil Perry
> wrote:
> 
> > Yeah but Alex, I think what Rob's saying is that,
> > well, the American bands weren't really *proper*
> punk,
> > were they? They may have come first, but they
> never
> > really got it...
> > Fastening the hatches on my shelter now
> > N
> >
> >
> >  --- Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> "I have always seen the Ramones as an update of
> the
> >> 60's garage bands.
> >> Great pop songs but never what I would term
> "punk"."
> >>
> >> ROB, MY BLOOD IS BOILING. I'M GOING TO FLY OVER
> TO
> >> ENGLAND AND KILL YOU
> >> AND BUILD A HOVERCRAFT WITH YOUR BONES AND SAIL
> BACK
> >> TO THE STATES ON
> >> IT.
> >>
> >> ALEX IN NYC..HELL BENT ON HOMICIDE
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sunday, October 17, 2004, at 05:10 PM, Rob's
> Arse
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> That's a good point Peter.
> >>>
> >>> I have teased Alex for ages about this, but I
> have
> >> always viewed the
> >>> Dolls as Glam. Trashy, yes but Glam.
> >>>
> >>> I have always seen the Ramones as an update of
> the
> >> 60's garage bands.
> >>> Great pop songs but never what I would term
> >> "punk".
> >>>
> >>> Punk is much more than the music. I love the
> >> nihilism of the Pistols
> >>> and the general "up yours" attitude. The WHY?
> >> That's why I belive that
> >>> Punk is English.
> >>>
> >>> You American guys had a good go though. Full
> marks
> >> for effort lads ;-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- "peter.west410" <peter.west410 at ntlworld.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> From: "peter.west410"
> <peter.west410 at ntlworld.com>
> >>> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:56:59 +0100
> >>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the
> >> band!)"
> >>> <gathering at misera.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not
> all
> >> of it
> >>>
> >>> I think that the NY dolls were part of the glam
> >> movement,When exactly
> >>> did
> >>> the Ramones first tour the UK? and the Ramones
> >> were never more than a
> >>> cult
> >>> band in the UK.
> >>> Right, you can generally put any noisy, out of
> >> tune band and say they
> >>> were the original punk band ,some even give
> >> examples of bands from the
> >>> 60s
> >>> ,saying they can be classed as punk.
> >>> I think the only way to do it is to see where
> the
> >> first single which
> >>> was punk as we know it,I put in a search for
> >> "First punk single" and
> >>> it came
> >>> up with"New Rose" by "The Damned".
> >>> Right, all we have to do is find out where The
> >> Damned came from,and
> >>> that place will be where punk originated.
> >>> Does anyone know where The Damned came from?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Christof hamille"
> >> <wessidetempest at hotmail.com>
> >>> To: <gathering at misera.net>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 3:41 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not
> all
> >> of it
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Agreed Alex
> >>>>
> >>>> It seems to obvious. If you have not read or
> >> figured out that none
> >>> of the
> >>>> punk bands in England happened until AFTER the
> >> Ramones toured there
> >>> then
> >>> you
> >>>> can look at McLaren and realize that he knew
> >> NOTHING about it until
> >>> he saw
> >>>> Richard Hell in NYC and came back to England
> >> with the infamous white
> >>> Les
> >>>> Paul that was passed on to Steve Jones. That
> >> guitar was originally
> >>> owned
> >>> by
> >>>> one Sylvain Sylvain of the NEW YORK DOLLS. And
> >> along with that that
> >>> is
> >>>> where he got the idea of the tattered clothing
> >> with the spray painted
> >>>> phrases on them. So no matter how you slice it
> >> it started in NYC. It
> >>>> exploded in England.
> >>>>
> >>>> That is all of the repeated energy I am putting
> >> into this
> >>>>
> >>>> enjoy
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris
> >>>>
> >>>>> From: Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
> >>>>> Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing
> Joke
> >> (the band!)"
> >>>>> <gathering at misera.net>
> >>>>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the
> >> band!)"
> >>>>> <gathering at misera.net>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not
> >> all of it
> >>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:02:47 -0400
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Not that it's not a compelling debate, Peter,
> >> but with Mik Raven
> >>> absent,
> >>> I
> >>>>> can't summon the stamina to get into it here
> >> again.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'll just cite two names to cement my point:
> >> THE RAMONES and RICHARD
> >>> HELL.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Alex in NYC
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Saturday, October 16, 2004, at 08:42 PM,
> >> peter.west410 wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "As was Punk Rock".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> No way,It may have been conceived in NY,But
> it
> >> was born & breed in
> >>> the
> >>>>>> UK.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "Rob's Arse" <joker at Z6.com>
> >>>>>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke
> (the
> 
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